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What kind of welder do you use?
- Thread starter synghyn
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 24, 1999
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- 4,981
How much are you looking to spend? And what are you wanting to do with it?
Ideally, I'd like to have a power source like Lincoln's square wave 450 which I got to use at school last winter. It could be switched back and forth from stick to TIG easily, and I think it was wire feed capable as well. Its also several thousand bucks :grumpy: I get into a lot of metal working projects besides knifemaking though.
Right now I just have a Lincoln AC 225 stick welder(actually its my dad's). Its done everything I need in terms of work around the farm here repairing things, and I've done some pretty good fabricating with it too. Its not something you do anything really intricate with, and is only able to weld steel as its AC only. If you get one thats AC/DC you get a little bit more versatility (can weld some aluminum). Its about the most bang for the buck you can get in a welder in terms of duty rating, and you can weld a really wide range of stuff with them with practice. I've welded stuff well under 1/8" clear up to 1/2" and thicker with one.
The advantage of a GMAW/
FCAW (wire feed) welder is no stopping to change electrodes in the middle of a weld, and the ability to weld thin stuff. If your planning on large projects with long welds, this is the way to go since you can run continuous beads. The problem is that one with a duty cycle capable of taking on those large projects is going to set you back over $1000 (best deal I've found so far is the Hobart Ironman 210). The smaller ones can do quite a bit, but generally aren't rated to be run hard for more than a couple minutes at a time. They are very versatile though, you can basically get stick welder performance using fluxcore wire, but no hassle of stopping for a new stick....or you can use shielding gas and get super clean welds with no slag or spatter. Can weld sheet metal also, which is pretty much impossible with a stick welder.
TIG is my favorite of all of them, but they're awful expensive and not something you use alot in general fabricating type stuff. You can weld just about anything with them, thin or thick, steel or aluminum. You get super clean welds, and have more control than any of the other types of welders. Running one will really show you what welding is supposed to be. Most people think its the most difficult to learn though (I picked it up a lot easier than stick...go figure) Its main advantage is appearance of the welds, and the control. Its what you want if your making really detailed stuff that has to look perfect. For general shop use though, the extra expense and learning curve don't make it the best choice.
Oxy Acetylene is fun, but I wouldn't buy that as my only welder. I've used it for 14 gauge sheet metal a few times and it works great, but is a little bit slower than some of the other methods. You also have the hassle of lighting and tuning the torch everytime you want to start another bead, and you have to learn how to use filler metal if you want to get into anything too serious (which ups the learning curve). Its a very versatile tool since you can also cut, braze, heat treat etc. with it.Another thing I plan on buying someday. I wouldn't buy one with the intention of doing a lot of welding with it though.
For someone just wanting a general purpose welder in their shop, I'd probably recommend one of the small-medium wire feed welders. Hobarts Handler 140 looks pretty neat, and Lincoln has a similar one (pro 175?) thats real nice too. I can't remember the model because no one local carries it :grumpy: They don't cost too much more than a good stick welder, and have great versatility. They're also probably the easiest welder to learn how to use. If your wanting to weld thick stuff on a budget, you've got to go with a stick welder though. I've grown pretty fond of mine after some practice anyway
Most guys here who only have one welder seem to have a wire feed of some sort and all seem pretty fond of them. I'd like to have one too, but I'm holding out until I can afford a big one
We've had a few threads on topics like this
Ideally, I'd like to have a power source like Lincoln's square wave 450 which I got to use at school last winter. It could be switched back and forth from stick to TIG easily, and I think it was wire feed capable as well. Its also several thousand bucks :grumpy: I get into a lot of metal working projects besides knifemaking though.
Right now I just have a Lincoln AC 225 stick welder(actually its my dad's). Its done everything I need in terms of work around the farm here repairing things, and I've done some pretty good fabricating with it too. Its not something you do anything really intricate with, and is only able to weld steel as its AC only. If you get one thats AC/DC you get a little bit more versatility (can weld some aluminum). Its about the most bang for the buck you can get in a welder in terms of duty rating, and you can weld a really wide range of stuff with them with practice. I've welded stuff well under 1/8" clear up to 1/2" and thicker with one.
The advantage of a GMAW/
FCAW (wire feed) welder is no stopping to change electrodes in the middle of a weld, and the ability to weld thin stuff. If your planning on large projects with long welds, this is the way to go since you can run continuous beads. The problem is that one with a duty cycle capable of taking on those large projects is going to set you back over $1000 (best deal I've found so far is the Hobart Ironman 210). The smaller ones can do quite a bit, but generally aren't rated to be run hard for more than a couple minutes at a time. They are very versatile though, you can basically get stick welder performance using fluxcore wire, but no hassle of stopping for a new stick....or you can use shielding gas and get super clean welds with no slag or spatter. Can weld sheet metal also, which is pretty much impossible with a stick welder.
TIG is my favorite of all of them, but they're awful expensive and not something you use alot in general fabricating type stuff. You can weld just about anything with them, thin or thick, steel or aluminum. You get super clean welds, and have more control than any of the other types of welders. Running one will really show you what welding is supposed to be. Most people think its the most difficult to learn though (I picked it up a lot easier than stick...go figure) Its main advantage is appearance of the welds, and the control. Its what you want if your making really detailed stuff that has to look perfect. For general shop use though, the extra expense and learning curve don't make it the best choice.
Oxy Acetylene is fun, but I wouldn't buy that as my only welder. I've used it for 14 gauge sheet metal a few times and it works great, but is a little bit slower than some of the other methods. You also have the hassle of lighting and tuning the torch everytime you want to start another bead, and you have to learn how to use filler metal if you want to get into anything too serious (which ups the learning curve). Its a very versatile tool since you can also cut, braze, heat treat etc. with it.Another thing I plan on buying someday. I wouldn't buy one with the intention of doing a lot of welding with it though.
For someone just wanting a general purpose welder in their shop, I'd probably recommend one of the small-medium wire feed welders. Hobarts Handler 140 looks pretty neat, and Lincoln has a similar one (pro 175?) thats real nice too. I can't remember the model because no one local carries it :grumpy: They don't cost too much more than a good stick welder, and have great versatility. They're also probably the easiest welder to learn how to use. If your wanting to weld thick stuff on a budget, you've got to go with a stick welder though. I've grown pretty fond of mine after some practice anyway
Most guys here who only have one welder seem to have a wire feed of some sort and all seem pretty fond of them. I'd like to have one too, but I'm holding out until I can afford a big one
We've had a few threads on topics like this
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I use a old Lincoln Tombstone AC/DC. HF has a Mig welder on sales was $399 is $199.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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I use a Lincoln MIG.I also have a Acet/Ox torch rig,which I mainly use for brazing .The HF model IG noted should work for most light welding and tacking up of billets. You don't have to hook up the argon to the MIG for most of the welding done in a blade shop.
Stacy
Stacy
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- Jun 17, 2001
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- 5,705
I've got two ox/ acd. One from Harbor Freight and the otherone was given to me. One is set up with propane that I use mainly for finishing off my threw tangs. I have an old cracker box and bought one of the Migs that was on sale at Harbor Freight. At first I thought I bought a piece of crap but once I used the spool of wire up that came with it and bought another spool I can't believe how much better it works.
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- Oct 29, 2003
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- 220
I have 2 stick welders that are very useful on rusty or heavy metal. I have A-O that Is used mostly for silver soldering (the high temp stuff) and heat treating small parts. I also have a TIG that I haven't used in years since I bought a Miller 135 MIG that is running a gas shield. We use the MIG for all sorts of welding like fixing bad spots in steel castings to building trailers. Even though the Miller 135 is not what could be called a big heavy duty welder we sometimes use it doing continuous heavy welds and have never had the duty cycle thingy shut us down. I guess I am saying buy the highest quallity welder you can afford.
Well, I have three welding set ups in use, a oxy-propane torch a Miller 140, and a panasonic gunslinger 260
The oxy torch is usually only used to braze, silver solder, and cut.
The miller 140 is a 110v portable welder that I also use welding pipe and tubing in the food industry, it only weighs about 8 lbs, and can be used for stick and tig welding up to 100 amps. the new version of this welder is the 150, I believe it can reach 110 amps on 110v input and 150 amps on 220v input. but not for long stretches.
The Panasonic is my workhorse, it is a dual purpose MIG/stick welder, up to 250 ams mig, 150 amps stick, with a good duty cycle. I have also added quick connects to the ground clamp line and the stick line, so that I can put in a Tig torch as well. This is a really nice machine with a steady arc.
The oxy torch is usually only used to braze, silver solder, and cut.
The miller 140 is a 110v portable welder that I also use welding pipe and tubing in the food industry, it only weighs about 8 lbs, and can be used for stick and tig welding up to 100 amps. the new version of this welder is the 150, I believe it can reach 110 amps on 110v input and 150 amps on 220v input. but not for long stretches.
The Panasonic is my workhorse, it is a dual purpose MIG/stick welder, up to 250 ams mig, 150 amps stick, with a good duty cycle. I have also added quick connects to the ground clamp line and the stick line, so that I can put in a Tig torch as well. This is a really nice machine with a steady arc.
- Joined
- May 10, 2000
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- 3,351
I'm in a similar position as synghyn right now, and just ordered some instructional videos from http://www.weldingvideos.com/
The videos arrived just two days after I ordered them but I haven't had a chance to watch them yet.
The idea was that the videos would show me what can be done with the various welding setups available, and then once I decided what to buy, I'd have some basic instructions for using it as well. I don't have any prior knowledge, and don't have the time to take a class, so I figured this would be the next best thing... Might be worth looking into.
Then again, with folks like Matt Shade in here, you might not need any videos or formal instruction afterall
The videos arrived just two days after I ordered them but I haven't had a chance to watch them yet.
The idea was that the videos would show me what can be done with the various welding setups available, and then once I decided what to buy, I'd have some basic instructions for using it as well. I don't have any prior knowledge, and don't have the time to take a class, so I figured this would be the next best thing... Might be worth looking into.
Then again, with folks like Matt Shade in here, you might not need any videos or formal instruction afterall
- Joined
- May 2, 2004
- Messages
- 6,848
I couldn't function without a stick welder[damascus maker] I like my tig rig for pooling metal extending tanges on damascus knives. Today, I plan on buying a small A.O. outfit with a fine tip so I can direct a hot flame onto a small area. The more advanced your skills become the more uses you will find for the dlifferent outfits. I purchased them as my skills improved. IMHO, buy the outfit that applys to what you are doing at present. That next one will come along when it's needed. I don't care much for shopping, but I loveeeee buying new stuff for the shop. Fred
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- Nov 24, 1999
- Messages
- 4,981
Wulf said:Then again, with folks like Matt Shade in here, you might not need any videos or formal instruction afterall
Ha! Not likely
That post pretty much sums up everything I know 
There are several guys here who know a lot more about it than me. I've taken a class on metal fabrication which went over the technicalities of the different processes, and gave us a chance to use them each a little bit. I've also put a lot of hours in teaching myself how to do it, and got some help from friends who do it for a living. I'm pretty proficient with a stick welder and fairly comfortable on a TIG. Wire feeds are clumsy to me as I'm not used to dealing with the whole gun set up, but its a pretty quick skill to pick up on.
Getting those videos should be a big help to you. If you know someone who can weld you should get a shield and watch them weld also. Its all about melting the base metals. I've seen a lot of people get hung up on the idea that a welder is like a glue gun. If some sticks to peice A and some sticks to peice B, they all stick together. Thats not how it works and doesn't produce strong welds(especially if you have to grind the part back to original dimensions). Your goal is to melt the 2 base peices together, the filler metal just helps fill the joint.
Anyway, I'm rambling on again. I just like welding
I'd say if you stick with a good company, lincoln, miller, hobart, you'll do just fine whatever you buy. They're all quality machines.Thanks guys, some great info there, food for thought
I'm looking at tacking up billets, cable, maybe chain, as far as knifemaking goes. As well as fab for oh, say building a 2x72 belt grinder,maybe a press, etc.
I get a real kick out of making my own tools, and well honestly, I'm cheap
I've got simple brazing covered already, I was more looking at wire feed, hopefully a dual, Mig/nogas rig, fairly low duty to stay as inexpensive as possible, but I don't want to be buying another one in a year either.
What do you think of this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7516830758&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEBI:IT&rd=1
I've actually heard ok things about the Campbell Hausfield line, and the price isn't bad, even for the quickie buy it now.
And these cheapie no namers, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=46413&item=4383302165&rd=1
I've got no idea on these, thought I'd see if anyone has had any experience with them.
I just went and looked at HF, IG were you thinking the Chicago Electric Dual unit for 199?
Thanks again for the advice folks, I appreciate the help.
Jon
I'm looking at tacking up billets, cable, maybe chain, as far as knifemaking goes. As well as fab for oh, say building a 2x72 belt grinder,maybe a press, etc.
I get a real kick out of making my own tools, and well honestly, I'm cheap
I've got simple brazing covered already, I was more looking at wire feed, hopefully a dual, Mig/nogas rig, fairly low duty to stay as inexpensive as possible, but I don't want to be buying another one in a year either.
What do you think of this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7516830758&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEBI:IT&rd=1
I've actually heard ok things about the Campbell Hausfield line, and the price isn't bad, even for the quickie buy it now.
And these cheapie no namers, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=46413&item=4383302165&rd=1
I've got no idea on these, thought I'd see if anyone has had any experience with them.
I just went and looked at HF, IG were you thinking the Chicago Electric Dual unit for 199?
Thanks again for the advice folks, I appreciate the help.
Jon
- Joined
- Nov 24, 1999
- Messages
- 4,981
synghyn said:
Neither of those welders is equipped for shield gas, so they are flux core only. That will give you weld quality similar to a stick welder, lots of spatter, lot of slag. Nothing wrong with that, you just gotta realize thats what it does.
I really would recommend you don't buy either one. Especially the first one you posted, saying that it will weld 3/16" steel is being very generous. 70 amps is very low, you'd be maxing the welder out on anything thicker than sheet metal. Then with a 15% duty cycle, you'll be sitting listening to the fan run after a minute or two of welding.
The second one has a little more power, but doesn't list the duty cycle. I really think you'd have the same trouble though, of sitting around waiting on the welder to cool down.
Wire feed welders are constant voltage machines, you adjust the voltage (heat) settings, and wire feed rate. The machine adjusts the amperage as you weld to maintain the right voltage and keep the arc burning. So there's no thinking that you'll just run at a lower amperage and weld longer. If you try to weld heavy stuff, the machine will max out.
Also, the guns and stuff that come with them just look cheap. Especially that hand held face shield that comes with the second one
That has to be the worst idea I've seen in a long time. Wire feed welding is very hard to do without both hands on the gun.For someone wanting a flux core only welder, I would recommend a hobart handler 125 ( http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/handler125.html# ). This has a higher duty cycle, and better controls than either one of those welders. And if someday down the road, you decided you wanted shield gas, you can buy the conversion kit for it. My local tractor supply company carries them for $309. I'm sure you could find one cheaper than that somewhere.
those wouldn't really be up to it.
Thanks Matt, bad, if expected news, but good answers.
How about the Chicago Electric from HF, or the Campbell Hausfield line in general(ie, higher amperage)for quality and longevity
Incidentally, I am wired for 240v so the higher power welders are an option, know of any good 240v systems for a decent price? I can find it, if you can recomend a name or a particular place you've seen good deals.
Again, appreciate the advice, I've done a very little welding with other guys rigs, but never shopped for one, so any pointers are helpful, that first post was all kinda good info Matt, thanks.
Jon
Thanks Matt, bad, if expected news, but good answers.
How about the Chicago Electric from HF, or the Campbell Hausfield line in general(ie, higher amperage)for quality and longevity
Incidentally, I am wired for 240v so the higher power welders are an option, know of any good 240v systems for a decent price? I can find it, if you can recomend a name or a particular place you've seen good deals.
Again, appreciate the advice, I've done a very little welding with other guys rigs, but never shopped for one, so any pointers are helpful, that first post was all kinda good info Matt, thanks.
Jon
Lincoln Buzzbox will do everything you want it to do, stocking rod is cheaper than stocking wire IMO.
IF you buy a wire feeder, go for a Miller, Lincoln,Hobart or ESAB.
ALL of those machines will give you years of use. And your gas supplier will have the parts. Talk to the weld supply guys. Sometimes they have a bargain. And they can help you out when you need service. Worth a few bucks over the BIG BOX stores IMO.
look through these links http://metals.about.com/od/weldin1/#more
http://www.millerwelds.com/ Miller bought out Hobart and makes them now. IMHO Miller has the best wire feeder going.
Old Hobarts sucked the new ones are completely different.
IF you buy a wire feeder, go for a Miller, Lincoln,Hobart or ESAB.
ALL of those machines will give you years of use. And your gas supplier will have the parts. Talk to the weld supply guys. Sometimes they have a bargain. And they can help you out when you need service. Worth a few bucks over the BIG BOX stores IMO.
look through these links http://metals.about.com/od/weldin1/#more
http://www.millerwelds.com/ Miller bought out Hobart and makes them now. IMHO Miller has the best wire feeder going.
Old Hobarts sucked the new ones are completely different.
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- Nov 24, 1999
- Messages
- 4,981
Listen to Sweany....he's a pro
I've only looked over hobarts since miller bought them. Never have run one, but they look good and have alot of features for the money. Everything I've used so far is lincoln, they provided equipment at school in exchange for being a training center. Top of the line stuff there, makes me want to cry now that I'm back with my own tools :grumpy: And all my friends seem to have lincoln welders.
I'm also racking up the hours on a 100 year old florney stick welder at work. Its like a damn switch board, high ground, low ground, plug in here for 60-70 amps, plug in there for 90-100 amps. Sounds like a hamster running on a wheel when the fan tries to run at all. I've burned about 15 lbs of rod with it in the last couple weeks, seems to be holding its magic smoke so far
I don't know about 240V MIGS. Seems like when you make that jump, you make a big jump in capacity, which is a good thing but brings a big jump in price. You can see the whole line up at www.hobartwelders.com and www.lincolnelectric.com, also check out www.millerwelds.com that sweany posted . That way you can check out the specs and MSRP for a general idea on price. Then try to find out what it goes for at a dealer.
I've only looked over hobarts since miller bought them. Never have run one, but they look good and have alot of features for the money. Everything I've used so far is lincoln, they provided equipment at school in exchange for being a training center. Top of the line stuff there, makes me want to cry now that I'm back with my own tools :grumpy: And all my friends seem to have lincoln welders.
I'm also racking up the hours on a 100 year old florney stick welder at work. Its like a damn switch board, high ground, low ground, plug in here for 60-70 amps, plug in there for 90-100 amps. Sounds like a hamster running on a wheel when the fan tries to run at all. I've burned about 15 lbs of rod with it in the last couple weeks, seems to be holding its magic smoke so far
I don't know about 240V MIGS. Seems like when you make that jump, you make a big jump in capacity, which is a good thing but brings a big jump in price. You can see the whole line up at www.hobartwelders.com and www.lincolnelectric.com, also check out www.millerwelds.com that sweany posted . That way you can check out the specs and MSRP for a general idea on price. Then try to find out what it goes for at a dealer.
I get a real kick out of old tools, handy with the cheap thing already going on.
Buddy of mine a couple years ago had a real old rig, I think the patents on it were from the 19teens, huge machine, about 50 amps if I recall right. 250 amp rigs are a tenth the size, wieght and price now.
Problem is, no suprise here, that I'm working on a budget. So I'm looking for the most bang(and flexibility) for the buck. That's why I asked, wondering if I may have missed something and be getting an underpowered, or just plain mismatched for the task at hand, kind of machine. Doesn't seem like that's the case, but I've picked up some great info from you guys, asd well as the sites you've linked. As always, you folks just plain rock, thanks alot for the insights.
Prices are pretty obvious on the 240v set ups, any big reasons to get the extra capacity, in knife making terms I mean. Keeping in mind fab for tooling. Doesn't seem like it, but I was looking for advice on what I could be missing so I deferr to the guys with a lot more experience, which is to say most if not all of ya'll.
Thanks again for the advice and links and any adsvise forthcoming
Jon
Buddy of mine a couple years ago had a real old rig, I think the patents on it were from the 19teens, huge machine, about 50 amps if I recall right. 250 amp rigs are a tenth the size, wieght and price now.
Problem is, no suprise here, that I'm working on a budget. So I'm looking for the most bang(and flexibility) for the buck. That's why I asked, wondering if I may have missed something and be getting an underpowered, or just plain mismatched for the task at hand, kind of machine. Doesn't seem like that's the case, but I've picked up some great info from you guys, asd well as the sites you've linked. As always, you folks just plain rock, thanks alot for the insights.
Prices are pretty obvious on the 240v set ups, any big reasons to get the extra capacity, in knife making terms I mean. Keeping in mind fab for tooling. Doesn't seem like it, but I was looking for advice on what I could be missing so I deferr to the guys with a lot more experience, which is to say most if not all of ya'll.
Thanks again for the advice and links and any adsvise forthcoming
Jon
I just got a Hobart 180 mig (230v) and a Jackson 3n1 Nexgen helmet. I can not believe how nice this set up is compared to what I was using. I could weld a bridge with this thing. I'd been using a 110v Chicago Electric (which is Harbor Freight) flux core mig and what a huge difference it makes. Almost no splatter and pretty beads. Penetration is great with 3/16" thick stock. I'm making stuff up to weld. I got both off eBay.