What makes it a "hanshee?"

Bri in Chi

Bri in Chi

Joined
May 28, 2003
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:confused:
I have looked in the archives for an answer, but may have missed it. Can anyone tell me what makes a khukri a hanshee? I just got a Bura from a recent posting, and I like it a lot, but can't tell what makes it a hanshee. There are, I know, some terms that defy definition, and if this is one, please excuse me. If so, then I might change my sig line to: "if you have to ask what a hanshee is, you're never gonna know."
 
I know what you mean Bri Chi.

I always thought a hanshee was a fairly thin and really curved blade.

However some of the recent ones seemed more Ganga ish with maybe a slight bit more bend to the handle.
 
I don't have the answer you're looking for....but whenever I see a hanshee, I think of bananas.


:confused:

:footinmou
 
Bri in Chi said:
:confused:
I have looked in the archives for an answer, but may have missed it.
Can anyone tell me what makes a khukri a hanshee?

I just got a Bura from a recent posting, and I like it a lot, but can't tell what makes it a hanshee.

There are, I know, some terms that defy definition, and if this is one, please excuse me. If so, then I might change my sig line to: "if you have to ask what a hanshee is, your never gonna know."
Click to expand...
Brian I don't think the HI Hanshee actually qualifies as being a Hanshee, don't have a clue as to why they are being called so.
The khukuris more commonly known as Hanshees have a longish curved slender blade and a very long slender and curved handle.

Here’s the results I got from doing a search with Hanshee in the subject and John Powell as the poster.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/search.php?searchid=258678



Here’s a thread about trying to get the original HI Hanshee made.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292807&highlight=Hanshee



This is a drawing of the HI Hanshee modeled off of Rod Allens Khukuri.

http://home.att.net/~cyberbeast615/RodAllenHanshee.gif



And on this thread I found the pic in the link below.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221165&highlight=Hanshee



Hanshee pic.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13408

I posted both pics as you can see. John has taken many of his khukuris off line and he may ask me to remove this one which I will gladly do. Then John can go way back and remove the pic from his old post so it won't show up anymore for us search rodents.;)




attachment.php
 
yes....I remember those.


I also remember when doing the "Khukuri Dynamics" drawings that I wanted to include a hanshee, but since it wasn't a regular item, left it out.

The thing that sticks out (in my memory) the most is the fact that there are "Three Bends". Most khukuris have one or two significant bends. The hanshee has a bend in the handle, a bend at the bolster and a bend halfway down the blade. Additionally, they are all "arched bends" (unlike the Ang Khola's bend).

But this is drawn from observation, and not based on research/fact. Add salt.
 
Hello Everyone,

I know I am not supposed to post here, but I think you may find this articule usefull.

link

Cheers Simon
 
Hey Dan, would you be interested in re-doign the handle on my Hanshee?
I am the lucky owner of the Rod Allen Hanshee by HI, #1 of a very limited run.
(1)
Anyway Dan, I was wondering if you could redo the handle. IT has a basic HI handle, which is wrong. It should be long and narrow, more like a two hander, and curved.
How feasible might such a project be?
It would be a glued tang, with no keeper, as JP says hanshees were....
 
I really debated weighing in on this one. I'm not even a knife guy- I'm a guy who uses steel to do things. I want to make that clear.

I have a rare HI Hanshee. Kumar made it. While it doesn't have the 'hand and half' handle, it is very very curved, and a partial tang design. If you saw it there would no mistake. When I got it several frustrated experts in the shark pool posted, "I want one exactly like that one."

It soon became obvious using it was a bit of an art. There is a wrist motion makes the most out of this design- an even more pronounced push pull with more emphasis on the pull than a regular khuk. Mine is 18" long and weighs almost 25 oz. I think you snap the wrist on this one, and it is my observation it cuts sinewy vine or whippy shrubs better than larger heavier broader khuks. When I read the Hanshee is a woman's khuk used to cut rope, this fits, too, though I have to wonder. Was there a lot of rope to cut in Nepal? Seriously, perhaps they had a Hemp industry at one time, or even today. The wrist action I alluded to makes sense for small statured or weaker individuals. Curved blades, like the little sythe in the woman's hands in the pictures, are used to harvest grain and top fields and cut hay. I have a very strong intuition about this blade- in the right hands, it is deadly. More technique than force. And that brings up another 'factoid': many of the older Hanshees I've seen pictures of seem to be long and warlike. While these don't rule out use by women, it does make me wonder if the 'woman's khuk' was in fact strictly a woman's tool.
Simon is a serious student of the Khuk. But even with him, for all I respect him, when I hear of a party going over to Nepal today, questioning many people for several hours, and returning to the West with a definitive explanation of the Hanshee I have a healthy amount of skepticism. Where's the rest of the story? I ask myself.

One part of the link made a lot of sense- the Kamis today accepting a new definition of 'hanshee' and even delivering it to us. Words do change meaning over time. I find that funny and very believable. But if 'hanshee' changed in our times, might it also have had other roots and other meanings before this, before we can even ask questions? Before anyone currently living in Nepal could say?
Bill Martino went to Nepal, lived there, married there. He was there for more than a few hours. What does this mean? I dunno. It means no one gets it all right all the time.

I don't believe the long Hanshees, with a pronounced curve in excess of any Sirupate, were designed to cut rope or harvest grain.

I wonder if the Hanshee was a design taken up by women afterwards? I wonder if the Hanshee was a jungle undergrowth clearing tool more than a wood cutter? I wonder if it evolved from farming? Perhaps the design came from farming, was turned to martial arts, and found a place with women.

But I'm not standing in the way of research or history. I'm a guy asking questions and delighted we're finding out more.

There are two khuk designs that seem to captivate everyone's imagination and 'wow' factor the most. Any of the long broad-leaf designs, and that strange extra-curved khukuri we've called the Hanshee.

For a tool user like me, it really doesn't make too much difference how some of these designs came to be, only that I find high quality examples which can be used.

For Simon, and John Powel and others, there seems to be very little 'peer review' available about khukuris. You are peer review. I hope you take my questions in the spirit they are intended, and not as a obstruction to your further knowledge.


munk
 
Daniel Koster said:
I don't have the answer you're looking for....but whenever I see a hanshee, I think of bananas.


:confused:

:footinmou
Click to expand...

sounds like a case study for uncle Freud :)
 
I don't know the answer to that, Sirupate. I think you should write and request reexamination of your status. But please do answer- I'll take the heat if there is any.

I've been pondering your post this afternoon. I was trying to remember other common use terms that have changed with misconception and then passed the test of time. Too sleepy to think well, I'm afraid. I thought of firearms- how the mechanics and science is largely known- and yet still there is disagreement; and that's a known entity.

When I think of all the names Chokecherry and Serviceberry have from region to region... I even had a joke for you, if I could phrase it right: (and I can't) IN all of Nepal, did you talk to the three people who knew about the Hanshee? Were there eight? Were there 46? If you traveled from town to town, region to region, would the story change?

I thought your post had much ring of truth, Simon. I hardly thought you'd visited the local tavern and shouted, "So what's all this hanshee nonsense, anyway?"

I gotta go to my son's award ceremoney at school. I'll look forward to reading your answer upon my return.

munk
 
Sorry but posts containing images and/or photos are disabled for non-registered visitors. Please register to view the complete thread.
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Sigh...hate it when boards are set up this way.
 
Come on Simon lay it on us! I'd like to hear also!

Service berry is one of the first things to bloom around here. White flower, kind of spiral twist to the bark grooves. Amalanchier(sp?) arborea :confused:
 
Here's the pic from 5/20 of my Bura hanshee. I think it was simply a case of a mislabeled picture. I love it, but can't see anything "hanshee" about it. It is light and surprisingly quick in hand. Seems more like a WWII to me:confused:
munk,
I think the term "conservative" might be one that has morphed into something unrecognizable from its original meaning. :rolleyes: :D Ooops... I didn't mean to start another political discussion. Honest ;)
 

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Hello Munk,

I understand about your point of language change over a period of time, but in this case I don't believe it to be the case, if you know what I mean :)
I had not been convinced of some of the names used in the West for kukri, such Budhume, Hanshee etc for some time, mainly because in Nepal a kukri is a kukri and they don't refer to them in any particular manner, infact the only ones they give a particular name to are the Sirupate (which probably originated from the Limbu) and the village kukri made in Bhojpore (not the tourist one which has the same basic shape).
My suspicions were further increased when speaking to Gurkhas and my Nepalese friends where I live, who refered to the Hanshee as an old style sirupate, and had never heard of the terms Hanshee, Budhume etc. Indeed they thought when I talked about hanshee, I was refering to the sickle used in the fields. So I decided when I went to Nepal next to question various people about this, who new about kukri.
When we started questioning the ever patient Nepalese about the names, it became quickly apparent that the terms Hanshee etc. which they had heard of, were not Nepalese terms, but western terms.
It is hard to describe the ins and outs of the dicusions, but it included two intensive visits to the Natioanal museam, with three different people, two of which were Nepali kukri experts, two days of intense discusion on top of this and ongoing research whilst we were there, which involved a lot of cross questioning until we were sure the answers were correct.
We discovered many new things, including the fact that a peice of terminolgy I used that they now use was infact from me :confused: Which I have now corrected :)
I beleive that the teminolgy that is now currentley being used is correct :)

Cheers Simon
 
Bri in Chi said:
Here's the pic from 5/20 of my Bura hanshee. I think it was simply a case of a mislabeled picture. I love it, but can't see anything "hanshee" about it. It is light and surprisingly quick in hand. Seems more like a WWII to me:confused:
munk,
I think the term "conservative" might be one that has morphed into something unrecognizable from its original meaning. :rolleyes: :D Ooops... I didn't mean to start another political discussion. Honest ;)
Click to expand...

Brian, I remember this guy and almost went for it. Very pretty wood, and the price was right for sure.

Ironically, the only real disappointment I have in my collection is a hanshee like this from Bura in horn. The handle is atrocious. Someone started carving the decorative ring around the handle and didn't even come close to matching up the start and finish lines. Seriously, it looks like a 6 year old worked on it. The handle has a chip missing out of it, is cracked and is mounted crookedly on the tang, the horn is rough and unfinished, and the scabbard leather looks like it is still on the buffalo. I can only think that this was a mistake that was accidentally shipped, as later knives just a week later by Bura were things of beauty. (I've often wondered if sometimes his assistants do some work and put it out with his initials?)

Considering the number of HI products that I have seen that were great, this was a very rare disappointment. I plan on trying to use it as a training khuk for myself and sand out the handle and refinish it and try to get some use out of it. Luckily the blade seems well done, although very dull.

I'm not sure if maybe the buffer will smooth out the rough scabbard leather but might try that as well.

As for the hanshee, the one I really want that I have only seen a few of is the "hybrid hanshee." It definitely has the curve shown in the pictures. There were a couple sold during the President's Day sales that I missed that were very nice. Thomas (Linton) got one and wrote about it. I bought a Manjushree that day instead, so was tapped out anyway.

Regards,

Norm
 
Thanks Simon. I'll go back and read again your link to know the correct word. Still wonder where that shape came from and what it was used for.

I don't think anyone would be surprised to know that the Nepalese people have probably experimented with every khuk shape imaginable.


munk
 
Bri;
My Hanshee is much more curved than the versions I've seen from Bura recently.

Norm, sorry about your handle. I've a horn handled Kumar and the handle is wonderful. Bill used to say that Kumar made the best horn handles. Sure wish I could figure out how to post picts with my software and show you two.


munk
 
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