What niche do limited edition production knives play?

[sygyzy]

I always am on the lookout for new hobbies to start and I found that blades go hand in hand with my other interests. I'll be the first to admit, I have always been a sucker for limited edition, special, exclusive, autographed, rare, etc items. I'll pay extra for a name brand or for an item that is somehow unique or special.

With that said, I have been really interested in the limited edition folders released by large companies. I mention large companies because in this post, I am referring to L.E. knives that are *NOT* from really custom houses or one man shows. Those are too pricey for me and I really don't know much about that market.

I was going to buy quite a number of the limited Benchmark knives til it hit me. What niche do these knives fill? They are "special" and numbered so you don't want them for EDC, right? I certainly would feel bad scratching up the black blades or denting the wood inlays or something. On the other hand, they are all under $150 and cheaper than alot of knives that are considered to be suitable and common for EDC, such as (TOO MANY TO LIST!)

Furthermore, after reading around it seems that everyone here is a collector. I see posts in the For Sale forums all the time with people "stumbling" across a drawer of knives they don't need. All new in box, all production knives. I mean, this totally boggles my mind. I could understand having new in box custom or collectible knives but not run of the mill Delicas or Scallions. But it seems very common here. Everyone seems to keep everything in the box, rather than use it.

The question is then, why? Like I said, I don't concentrate on the $500 fixed blades or the one of a kind Damascus. I am sure those go up in value. But with all the other knives, the resale value really really seems to suck. People have to sell their NIB production knives at a 10% loss or so otherwise the public will just buy from a dealer. So why even bother keeping your five Delica's NIB?

Better yet, why buy all these production knives that you never intend on using?

So I guess my question has drifted off on a tangent slightly. But they still are all interconnected.

1. What role do limited edition knives from large mfg's in the world of the blade hobby? Collector's pieces? EDC pieces?

2. Why do so many uers collect knives clearly intended for EDC full knowing they will never ever go up in value?

Thoughts? Questions? Comments?

 

[Patryn]

Originally posted by sygyzy
1. What role do limited edition knives from large mfg's in the world of the blade hobby? Collector's pieces? EDC pieces?

Yes and Yes. Some of us collect them, some of us use them. I am one of those that pick up most of the limited editions that BM themselves put out. I don't get most of the ones that are special runs ordered by dealers or distributors. There have been too many of those lately. That being said, one of my 3 EDC's (yes I carry all 3 every day) is a limited to 1000 run. I bought 2 of them, one to keep, one to use.

2. Why do so many uers collect knives clearly intended for EDC full knowing they will never ever go up in value?

Never is a long time. Some of the early BM's are rather difficult to find. If you go back to the PCC days, or further back to the Bali-Song USA days, they get very hard to find. All were regular production at one time. It all depends on how long you plan on keeping it. Did you ever see what people have paid for those early AOL diskettes? Holy crap! Who would have ever thought those would be worth anything? You just never know.

 

[switched]

I don't know what the breakdown of users/collectors/both here would be syg, but I doubt if even the majority are solely collectors.

In my case at least, I'd never purchase a knife I wasn't going to use. In that, it wouldn't worry me at all if a particular knife happened to be a limited edition, although it might add slightly to the initial appeal. I'm not really concerned about resale, other than in a rare case where I purchased a knife I decided I didn't like after all. I'd just have to take the hit of decreased value due to usage.

For me, and I'm thinking of BM's here, the main function of limited editions is that they offer a mix of components I prefer, blade steel in particular, which aren't available on the standard model(s) current at the time.

 

[Gollnick]

It depends on the size of the edition, how unique the knife is, and how frequently the manufacturer issues such "special" editions.

When Benchmade takes an otherwise production knife and stamps, "First Production xxx/500" on it, well most collectors yawn at most. Maybe if it's a very low serial number, maybe if you have the identically-numbered preproduction and prototype pieces to make a set, but but one of five hundred of what is otherwise a production knife just isn't that exciting.

But, when Benchmade made twenty-five, yes just 25, Benchmade 49-SPL Bali-Songs with mirror-polished, double, zero-bevel, hollow-ground, kris blades, Les DeAsis signature laser-etched on them, and put them in elegant, polished stainless steel handles with rosewood inserts, well collectors stood up and took note on that one.

 

[sygyzy]

Ah some very interesting responses. Mostly it confirmed my suspicions that most people here are collectors rather than users, which leads me to conclude we have a very patient bunch here.

Patryn- Are you saying you buy two of every LE knife BM puts out? This quickly becomes an expensive hobby...

switched - I think the non-nonsense side of me agrees with you the most. LE's allow me to have a mix of components the regular version might not offer. However, the collector side of me (I run to anything screaming special or limited edition) says I better not touch since it might go up in value some day.

 

[Patryn]

Heck no! I only bought 2 of that one so I had one in new condition, and one to use. The others I only buy one of. On rare occasion I will buy 2 of a limited knife, but only if I get it at a real deal. I'll then hold on to it for a bit and trade it away for something else, and still have one left. I've only done that 2 or 3 times though.

 

[miguel_SF]

sygyzy:

I've got several production knife models (BM Griptilian drop-point with thumbstud, BM Osborne 940/941, Kershaw Double-Cross, Spyderco Gunting) where I've bought multiple copies, and which are NIB. However, I'm not a collector. These are knives that seem to meet my needs very well, and that I consider to be good values. Also, I am paranoid that the manufacturer is going to discontinue the model, and that I am going to lose or break the knife. Therefore, I've bought back-ups.

This seems to be a pretty common practice among forumites, and there was a thread about this within the last 3 or 4 months. I have also found that the more I learn about knives and the more knives I get, the less likely I am to think that any particular model is special enough to get back-ups, so I am probably going to be doing less of this in the future.

miguel

 

[sygyzy]

Patryn Of those that you sold or traded, did you find them to be worthy investments? I mean did you get a good premium over what you bought them for?

Mind you, I am just playing devil's advocate here and quite frankly am sort of trying to justify this hobby to myself. The fact that it's more of an observer's hobby (i.e. collecting stamps. Just look, don't touch) rather than a participatory one (i.e sports, paintball, shooting), makes it quite restrictive financially. Since I usually don't want to "mess up" potential collector's items, I'd be spending alot of money on items that will probably never leave my drawer.

miguel_SF - I must say I have never seen anyone use your approach. That is a very very interesting idea. You buy multiple knives just in case your current one breaks, so you can have backups! What are your thoughts on collectible knives..or do you only buy knives for user?

 

[Daniel Dorn]

I just thought I'd mention my situation with a couple LE BM knives I've bought.

I tend to like things a little different than the normal production versions. I may like a specific production model, but something is just not quite right. Then, if it comes out in a special version (doesn't matter whether it's xxx/1000, xxx/500, or xx/25 or whatever) and this version is THE ONE, then I'll get it.

I own the 940 Knife of the Month with blue handle, and that one really appealed to me. I also own the 730CFHS. Both of these knives are users, and I have no regrets in not keeping them NIB Condition.

I just look at the LE phenomenon as a way to find the right knife. Of course, I consider myself a knife accumulator, rather than a knife collector. I have no Safe Queens, or Dresser Kings, rather a cool bunch of user knives. I usually never consider the dollar value of a knife after it's in my posession.

DD

 

[Gollnick]

This seems to be a pretty common practice among forumites

Oh yeah. When you find something you like, buy several. Not only do manufacturers discontinue knives, but they make little "design improvement" that might, at least for you, not be so desirable.

did you find them to be worthy investments?

In general, knives are not good investments. If you want investment, buy stocks and bonds. Buy knives for the enjoyment of them!

Limited editions have a better chance of at least holding their value than general production pieces. But, generally, knives are not day-trading things; they're buy-and-hold things. When BM releases 500 pieces, the market is pretty much saturated. Anyone who wants one can get one. Why should they search the secondary market and pay you a premium? It's ten years from now when people are trying to back-fill their collections that you might get a premium. That LE that you bought for $150, might bring $250. Wow! But had you invested that same $150 in a conservative bond fund, it'd be over $300. Knives aren't a good investment.

Of course, had you invested your $150 in a conservative bond fund, what you have had all those ten years? A piece of paper.... that's what.

 

[miguel_SF]

sygyzy:

As Gollnick has verified, lots of "users" hoard favorite knife models with no intention of collecting. I thought I was crazy for doing this until I spent some time on this forum. Now I know I'm crazy, but at least I'm not alone.

I am actually an "anti-collector". I like to have as few personal possessions as necessary to allow a normal, satisfying life. I also don't like to spend time shopping. So when I find a good item that has a limited lifetime, whatever it might be (knife, shoes, pen, wallet), I often buy several at a time. In practice, I never lose knives, and I don't abuse them so they don't break, and almost always a new knife will be introduced that is better than the model that I've been hoarding. That's why I'm reconsidering my hoarding habit.

miguel

 

[Patryn]

Originally posted by sygyzy
Patryn Of those that you sold or traded, did you find them to be worthy investments? I mean did you get a good premium over what you bought them for?

Yes, I did. But like I said, I got a really good deal on them, ie: It's selling for $175 from most internet stores and I got them at $125 or something like that. Then I'll buy an extra one and keep it until I see someone wanting it that has something I want. Works for me and them. That of course doesn't happen often. I was holding on to a 2nd 941D2CF for a bit until they went completely crazy on Ebay. I put it up and sold it for about $40 more than I paid for it. Nothing I'll ever get rich from.

 

[sygyzy]

miguel and others - Your statements seem to be counterinuitive. You don't collect knives, yet you buy multiples of each one. How many knives do you go through per month? Year? How long will it be til you ever reach that 3rd BM you bought? Probably never right? Then what happens is you end up with a NIB knife you end up selling in the forums.

Gollnick - You're absolutely right. I realize how poor of an investment they make yet the "collector's" market is so high. It's quite odd actually since I can't think of any other market's like this. Even people who collect old Pez dispensers are hoping for them to rise in value. I guess there's a fine line between collecting because you like something and collecting to perserve value. I always associate it with the later definition because when's the last time you've met someone who calls himself a car collector (just an example) let your 12 year old take a spin on his Shelby Cobra?

 

[miguel_SF]

sygyzy:

Unlike a collector, I never open up my boxes of extra Griptilians to admire them, I never display my 2nd or 3rd Gunting. In short, I derive no pleasure from my extra knives - I only have these knives for peace of mind, not for enjoyment.

miguel

 

[Ironman]

My EDC (Every Day Carry) is a Benchmade 941 Limited Edition December 2002. Not a whole lot of these blue and black babies around, as far as I know. I wanted a blue 941 and when I saw electric blue and black I was hooked. I had to look quite a while until I finally found one, I carry it and use it for everything from scraping to cutting carpet
to a fidget toy. (Very Carefully!) The blade is worn and scratched. I really like the knives that get used. I just can't get into a knife I just look at, it feels like it is someone elses. That is why I don't understand how some here can have a new EDC every day, it would be like a new wife everyday to me......hey wait!...Just Kidding.
I also bought the ARC AAA LE flashlight for the color, and better quality, I EDC it as well. Have you looked into high tech flashlights ? I also bought a Surefire E@E Limited Edition, just because it was.

 

[torment]

I recently purchased a BM 941BC1BL from a guy on here. I found a knife that had a different color than the other 94x models and it also came with the hard BC1 coating. I used it almost every day at work cutting open boxes, letters, and pretty much anything else that needs to be cut apart. It was plain edge and clip point so thats another feature that I liked about it. I also got a great deal on it, so I saved some that way too.

I really only look at the limited production knives to get features added that wouldn't normally be. BC1 isn't offered on the regular 940 series so I had to find a limited production one to fit my liking.

 

[DaveH]

In answer to your original questions I would suggest that manufacturers produce limited editions to:

- Increase prestige
- Market test combinations of blades, etc.
- Increase sales.

As a collector, my motivation to collect can be anything, I determine my motivation, not the knife. Hence I may prefer to use a special edition for EDC even if it "hurts" the value.

I agree that knives are generally not going to appreciate. There are some knives that loose less value than others.

 

[sygyzy]

Originally posted by Ironman
My EDC (Every Day Carry) is a Benchmade 941 Limited Edition December 2002. Not a whole lot of these blue and black babies around, as far as I know. I wanted a blue 941 and when I saw electric blue and black I was hooked. I had to look quite a while until I finally found one, I carry it and use it for everything from scraping to cutting carpet
to a fidget toy. (Very Carefully!) The blade is worn and scratched. I really like the knives that get used. I just can't get into a knife I just look at, it feels like it is someone elses. That is why I don't understand how some here can have a new EDC every day, it would be like a new wife everyday to me......hey wait!...Just Kidding.
I also bought the ARC AAA LE flashlight for the color, and better quality, I EDC it as well. Have you looked into high tech flashlights ? I also bought a Surefire E@E Limited Edition, just because it was.

Flashlights? Of course. I have a Arc AAA LE sitting on my keychain 1.5 feet away from me right now. I am a huge fan of hard annodize (because I hate scratches!) so it was perfect. I thought about keeping it NIB but cmon, a flashlight? I hope I don't eat my words in 5 years when Arc becomes the next Surefire and they are worth 10x as much I am planning on getting a E2E Executive too. I saw the LE version they have but it's special in a very weird way - It's CHEAPER (in price) with a cheaper finish!! So I think I'll just stick with the non-limited HA version.

DaveH So if you determine what you collect, have you ever found yourself putting away a knife not designated LE or SE, just a plain old knife. Buying it and putting it on display in a case? Doesn't that seem a bit odd? That's like displaying a Bic Pen. They're a dime a dozen.

torment Your words resonate the kind of knife hobbyist I wish and hope I could be someday. To be so carefree and just buy knives to use, not worrying about how much they'll be worth later on or if you are going to scratch a "limited" finish.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. Lots of very intelligent and insightful responses and thoughts to ponder. Keep them coming if you have more!

 

[torment]

Why thank you

Personally, I can't justify money being spent towards something that won't be used. I don't have enough money to put it towards something that is going to sit and slowly go up in value. The type of knife that I would keep in a knife case would be something with a nice damascus blade. Like a lot of people I've heard of, they seem to be SOMEWHAT nervous about using their damascus knife due to maybe scratching it. I'm kinda new to this knife thing but I've read a lot of information in my short time. I like to try the knives I hear about and see online in person. Gun & knife shows seem to be the way to go. Never got to handle a Sebenza till then, and I see why they are worth the money. The only thing I didn't like was the locking frame which seemed really hard for my to push it back so I could close the knife. I ended up sending the blade into my thumb, guess I am used to the looser locking knives. Maybe I am just a wuss

 

[sygyzy]

Or maybe it's a sign from the Knife Gods to stay away from $450 dollar folders?