What rights do you have regarding police searches on knives?

B

bubblewhip

Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
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I think we all know some states like NYC and California as well as the country of Canada have issues with "gravity knives" or knvies that you can flick out with your wrist. My question is if your knife is clipped to your pocket, what can the LEO do if you have not done anything illegally or suspicious to figure out if your knife is a manual folder or some auto/gravity knife? Does he have free reign to literally take the knife out of your pocket and try it out?
 
When you woke up on September 12th 2001 you basically had no rights. You are being wiretapped, videotaped, and all of your email is monitored. The Feds have actually had to build a new facility to house the hard drives that keep all of this info. It's in the desert. There wasn't enough land left in Maryland. Seriously. That's how much info they're keeping, in an era where you can store John Wayne's entire filmography on a thumb drive. Imagine how much info they have when the "need" for THOUSANDS of acres of land is required to store hard drives. Yikes. What did you have for breakfast on July 12th 1987? Don't know? File a freedom of information request and we'll get back to ya buddy.

Knife carry laws? Hilarious! What ever strikes the arresting officer as a threat is illegal. Learn it. Live it. Grey area you say? Deal with it. It's post 9/11 Amerika. Welcome to the camps. Anyone with gold teeth please step to the right of the white line. Cheers.
 
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not to offend the op, but since when is NYC a state?

as for NYS laws, they aren't all that terrible...theres no blade length restrictions; there are bans on automatics, knuckle knives, and gravity knives (balisong are not considered gravity knives; gravity knives are otf autos)
 
stealthchaser13 said:
not to offend the op, but since when is NYC a state?

as for NYS laws, they aren't all that terrible...theres no blade length restrictions; there are bans on automatics, knuckle knives, and gravity knives (balisong are not considered gravity knives; gravity knives are otf autos)
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Not the NY I live in and enforced laws in. NYC enforces the state penal law ( 265.01) in all but the exposed clip and blade lenght ( which are NYC Admin Code). Any knife that can be flicked open and locks open ( even holding the blade instead of the handle) is a gravity knife in NY. Too much case law affirming this to list. Butterfly knives have been found not to be gravity knives in several cases due to the fact they do not lock open auotmatically, BUT they have been declared a dangerous knife due to the fact they are weapons by design, and our former Governor went after many out of state knife retailers for selling them in NY via internet and mail order and won lots of fines. You will be arrested under 265.01 for a dangerous knife if you carry a butterfly knife.

The NY law now explained as it exist ( Not being sarcastic but I would rather tell you what happens in court and at two in the morning during a street/traffic stop than make someone feel they are OK to carry a certain knife).The OP asked what is the search right of a officer. If you have a knife in plain sight ( a clip exposed, sheath, handles sticking out of your pocket, and an outline of a knife clearly visible - think that old 110 in your rear pocket of a pair of Levis that is clearly a knife), then an officer has the total right to question you as to the type of knife and how it functions, and yes take it from your pocket to see it. He does not have to offer in court that he had any reason why he stopped you, other than to say he clearly observed a possible weapon violation and acted to investigate it.(The rear pocket carry is the only one that may have some grey area. ) The good thing about NY law, is that you can carry a knife concealled ( the Sullivan Law has been off the books since the 1960s), and that does aid in your defense as to why you were stopped and searched.

I always offer the safest way to act as I have seen too many people have their lives ruined by a serious criminal charge due to the fact that they were ill advised about the law, or thought that since a store sells it you must be able to carry it. Please do not take anyone's posting telling you to "do what you want" as good advice. Understand the law, decide what your life would be like if you were the one in a hundred that was arrested for that charge, and make a mature decision that you can live with. As for me, I am looking to move to New Hampsire some day so I can legally carry any knife I want, but till then......
 
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tom19176 said:
Not the NY I live in and enforced laws in. NYC enforces the state penal law ( 265.01) in all but the exposed clip and blade lenght ( which are NYC Admin Code). Any knife that can be flicked open and locks open ( even holding the blade instead of the handle) is a gravity knife in NY. Too much case law affirming this to list. Butterfly knives have been found not to be gravity knives in several cases due to the fact they do not lock open auotmatically, BUT they have been declared a dangerous knife due to the fact they are weapons by design, and our former Governor went after many out of state knife retailers for selling them in NY via internet and mail order and won lots of fines. You will be arrested under 265.01 for a dangerous knife if you carry a butterfly knife.

The NY law now explained as it exist ( Not being sarcastic but I would rather tell you what happens in court and at two in the morning during a street/traffic stop than make someone feel they are OK to carry a certain knife).The OP asked what is the search right of a officer. If you have a knife in plain sight ( a clip exposed, sheath, handles sticking out of your pocket, and an outline of a knife clearly visible - think that old 110 in your rear pocket of a pair of Levis that is clearly a knife), then an officer has the total right to question you as to the type of knife and how it functions, and yes take it from your pocket to see it. He does not have to offer in court that he had any reason why he stopped you, other than to say he clearly observed a possible weapon violation and acted to investigate it.(The rear pocket carry is the only one that may have some grey area. ) The good thing about NY law, is that you can carry a knife concealled ( the Sullivan Law has been off the books since the 1960s), and that does aid in your defense as to why you were stopped and searched.

I always offer the safest way to act as I have seen too many people have their lives ruined by a serious criminal charge due to the fact that they were ill advised about the law, or thought that since a store sells it you must be able to carry it. Please do not take anyone's posting telling you to "do what you want" as good advice. Understand the law, decide what your life would be like if you were the one in a hundred that was arrested for that charge, and make a mature decision that you can live with. As for me, I am looking to move to New Hampsire some day so I can legally carry any knife I want, but till then......
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Tom, not sure what you mean by rear-pocket carry having some grey area, unless you mean that a comb can be mistaken for a knife. Has anyone had any success getting acquitted using that theory? Many guys do carry a comb in the back pocket. In fact, my battered old "Ace" has been in my back pocket for so long, it has actually taken on a curve! :D Seriously, though, I believe that the best place to carry a folder completely concealed without a clip showing is deep in the strong-side front trouser pocket, pivot-down. Even with fairly snug jeans, most modern folders are flat enough and light enough to not print to any noticeable degree. My EDC, a 4" Cold Steel "Voyager" folder, is not noticeable at all when I carry it in this manner. Best bet is to check one's self in a full-length mirror before stepping out onto the street, just to be sure. Most women own at least one, so just ask the wife or girlfriend to use it for a minute if you are not 100% certain that your blade is totally concealed.
 
The only reason I pulled the rear pocket carry out a bit was to properly answer the OP's question. The fact the the knife prints in the rear pocket is always allowable in court, but it would still considered concealled. That leaves it in a bit of a gray area when I was answering his question. The clear outline gives an officer the right to ask about it, but not as clear a right as when it is eposed in one of the other ways.
 
Bubblewhip,

You neglected to tell us where you live, so it's harder to answer your question.

In Texas, it's perfectly legal to carry a (legal) knife concealed or not. It's entirely normal to carry a knife here, (although it's less common than it used to be). Unless you are clearly carrying an illegal knife, or participating in illegal activities, an officer has no business searching you because you have a knife in your pocket or on your belt.
 
Harry Callahan said:
When you were born you basically have no rights with the cops.
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FIXT.

Seriously with the cops.....they can lie to you all they want. But really the worst thing they can do is take your knife. Even if it's an automatic, what are they going to do give you a lousy fine and book it as evidence or pocket a nice automatic? They will pocket it. I've seen it done on a $35 boker auto, if it fires nice and appears in good condition they "pretend" to do you a favor by just keeping it.
 
Bill86, in most states where they are illegal, it is a serious misdameanor or a felony ( In NY it is either depending on your past record). Do some cops take them and keep them. Yes. Do some take them and have a box in their lockers that they throw out when it is full, YES. Many do this because wheter or not you want to believe it, once they find an illegal knife, they can not let you take it and leave. They SHOULD charge you, but many don't want to put a serious charge on someone's record ( and possible jail time) for a knife they may not have known was illegal. I knew one officer who would throw a box full of such items into a cement pour from a truck at a construction site so they were sealed in concrete ( 20+ years ago). Did he steel your knife or did he allow you to keep a clean record for a illegal action you took?

These days, most officers are so scared about getting in trouble that they do issue a summons, make an arrest or voucher the item. Maybe in small town US, some still take them and use them, but I don't see that as a common thing in a big city with a well regulated police force these days.....
 
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