What Rosarms needs to succeed in the NA market

U

Unsub

Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
1,945
1 a first rate "super" stainless you pretty much can't do without. If you have a really first rate product you might be able to get away with a excellent tool steel. The BG-42 with Titanium is as close to perfect marketing wise as you can get. Russia has a good rep as far as heat treating but even though it is just as important to making a good knife it is not nearly as important to marketing.

2 some good press in the knife magazines and forums. An article in Tactical Knives would be perfect:D

3 Micarta handles , pretty much every really expensive first rate tactical knife on the US market has micarta handles usually with a full tang.

4 Thick beefy blades ,they should be at least 3/16th inches thick. Personally I am not a fan but the market wants pointy pry bars.

So far so good. The line could use a few more micarta handled knives but seems pretty well set.

A couple weak points are sheaths and some of the handle designs are unfamiliar to NA knife buyers. It is a tricky thing to keep the knife makers happy ,have a suitable knife for the US market and keep the Russian spirit.

I would keep the handles the same but make a few of the military and hunting styles out of solid micarta as well.
 
Actually, I think all that is needed is the good press and then a bit of change in product-line as the market warrants.

The micarta or similiar handle material would be nice, but a solid condoterie of proponents would be better to increase the name exposure.

Another issue may be price point. A nice little $50-60 knife (actual cost to the consumer) can serve as a positive intoduction to the maker for those that aren't familiar with maker. It seems that once a knife goes over $100, people are more hesitant to buy (even when they know it is a good deal).

By the way, since folders are so common in the U.S., are there any plans for one? If so, keep it simple, but allow some of the company heritage to be obviously seen.
 
Thanks guys!

We do have a plan for folders. Will try to keep them simple... :)

I really appreciate your advise about NA market. Will try some of your suggestions... (like a Tactical Knives article...)
 
I like the idea of a small 50 60$ knife as an icebreaker. I love small fixed blades for EDC and you can get some very nice knives from the big names for quite cheap and actually use them. I have picked up a couple little Striders like the ED and one I forget the name of a bit bigger,a Swamprat Swamp Warden which was 60$ a Spyderco Mule ,and a Chris Reeve Inyoni. All for the price of one big Busse. Having a small fixed blade from a good company is also a great way to try out some fancy new steels. I was just trying to find a Microtech
Manus PE in stock somewhere.

One thing I noticed about the Rossarms line that is going to put off some North American buyers is all the brown and orange colours. The walnut handles are nice. Some good photos would help as well.

If you are really confident about how the steel will hold up under severe abuse you could give one to Ciff Stamp or Noss at knife tests to abuse and rate. I sell a lot of Scrapyards on the secondary market and when Noss batoned an S6 through a thick steel pipe I sold a bunch to people who had seen the video.

One thing I care about but the market seems to care less about is good edge geometry.
The Spyderco Mule has fantastic edges and is one of the sharpest thigs I have ever owned. Spyderco is actually good for that. Scrapyard on the other hand sell prybars.
They have gotten much better. The blades are still thicker than I like with 3/16th being their thinnest but at least they have gone to full flat grinds.

A forged no flexkitchen knife but in the Rossarms steel and a thin stock and high full height grind could do really well. A lot of kitchen knives are made to look forged but are not. Rosarms also seem to have the ergonomic handles done really well. Don't try to reinvent the wheel just a very basic knife with a walnut handle. I showed some guys a ad for an out of stock Jap made Santoku made from ZDP for just under 200$ and they went bonkers so there is a market.

A Santoku is a Japanese version of the traditional french chefs knife but most of the ones we see have been altered for the US market with a rounded edge for rocking on cutting boards. I love the idea of an americanized ,jap version of a French knife made in Russia.
 
 
I just read the article in Tactical Knives and was very impressed. I will be getting a couple/few in the very near future, excellent looking knives at a great price point, very natural looking.
 
Well, I do not think Micarta is better then Birch bark. So far I did not see better handle material then birch bark, so I do not think it will be good idea to make micarta handles. However, it need to be really well advertized, because I am aware of this from Russian forums, but people here has no idea what kind of beauty they miss.

As durable as Micarta it is natural, light and thermo-comfortable.

I think that Russian historically has pretty poor advertizement so they can not overturn customer opinion with heavy PR and so has to go with best material market asking for. If you notice micarta is on many RosArms guards and pommels, so this things is not really new for them, but having such an beauty as stacked birch bark - who need micarta?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I need Micarta...it is actually the only thing that is holding me back. If you want beauty, buy some art. If you want a knife...make it as durable as all possible! I owned VERY few natural handled knives...and without a single exception.....they ALL failed! Even stacked leather degrades and if one ring fails, you have to rehandle the whole thing!

You have the designs, you have the Steel,......now if there was only some complete micarta handles on a few models....I would be knee deep in your knives!
 
Gravelface said:
I need Micarta...it is actually the only thing that is holding me back. If you want beauty, buy some art. If you want a knife...make it as durable as all possible! I owned VERY few natural handled knives...and without a single exception.....they ALL failed! Even stacked leather degrades and if one ring fails, you have to rehandle the whole thing!

You have the designs, you have the Steel,......now if there was only some complete micarta handles on a few models....I would be knee deep in your knives!
Click to expand...

Let me ask you - Did stacked Bark Birch Fail you? Because I am agree with you on leather and wood and other material used for look mostly, but Birch Bark is very different animal.

I have most handle material in my collection, well except like mammoth ivory and dinosaur bone... I can tell you that Birch Bark is as durable as Micarta or even better, much more durable then leather and wood.

You should know that RosArms is like Buck in Russia and have millions of their knive all around this huge place Sakhalin, Siberia, Ural, Magadan, North Caucasus - everywhere in every hunting supply shop you will see good choice of RosArms knives! Hunters, LEO and Specnaz using this knives as a good reliable tool for many years now - once after collapse of the communists they were allowed to produce good knives.

As I sad they do not know yet in Russia how to turn customer opinion using heavy advertisement, so they have to produce what their customers want, and their customers are not collectors looking for beauty...

So I am highly recommend you to try stacked Birch Bark - I value it not for the beauty but for working properties. And this properties not valued only by me but by many RosArms Customers - as well as I know browsing Russian forums. And they have Micarta were it is needed - on the guard and pommel:

RosArms-Fox-II-01.jpg


Now the fact that this is not urgly knife does not mean that it is collector not working knife - absolutely not! Yes I did good job making this photo, but it looks nice because blade geometry is working as well as handle - extremely comfortable and handy. When you look at it you see practical beauty - not something done only to make it looks.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
That is a beautiful knife, but most importantly, very functional looking. I would love to own a HELIOS-2, MOST a STALKER in 1/4" thickness, ARTIBASH , I think I am going to buy a Ray first, TAIGA with aluminum guard, TORNADO, Nona, TAIGA , Non Serrated Baby with Aluminum...I think that will do me good first round....but like all new knives.....I never had a chance to handle one and don't have access to anyone with one to try out before I purchase any of these.


But no, I have not tried birch bark, but CANNOT imagine it being NEAR as durable as Micarta.
 
It is it is more dense then wood, think about this as wood leather. It is dense but flexible unlike wood and unlike leather it is strong to tier apart and it is warm.

First what you need to check if you like to buy one of this knives - thickness. Many of them 2.2mm (11/128") thin which is unusual for American knives. Again because many Russian Hunters have to actually walk on their weeks long trips - they prefers lightweight slicers rather then heavy weight "Zombie Killer", which has no use in the field anyway (Russian culture same as Scandinavian value hatchets for chopping)... However I prefer bit thicker blades myself - like that Fox II which has goo 5mm (13/64") blade.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Possibly, someone interested in stomping on a handle with heavy boots should get Micarta or G-10. For hard knife use, it's hard to beat birchbark. It has been used for real working knives in northern Europe for a long time in that harsh climate. It's also as comfortable as any handle material available.
 
OK. Originaly I'm from Europe (Croatia), and in my mind there is only one thing missing in Rosarms offer. Europeans simply have diferent oproach to knife use, that is not similar to expectations of American users. Do not take me wrong, I am, as some of you probably know a huge fan of Busse knives, and I swear my life by them. I own 'Bayonet' by Rosarms,and there is nothin bad that I can say about it. I put it to realisticly heavy work for knife ( did not slay any zombies, and did not chop into pieces 'few' oak trees).It was more realistic kind of work, I slayed the cow, and did not stop until that thing was packed in the ziplock bags. Blade was sharp until the end.Few strokes on the leather strope brought it back to shaving sharp again. Sheats are not exactly up to my taste, but we are talking about blades here.
Birch bark is definitely not up to the micarta, but nobody said that it was suppose to be. If you start hammering birch bark, it will behieve more or less as Oak. It is just a traditional(exotic) and beautyfull handle material, tnat is not often seen on American market. What I think is missing in Rosarms offer is EDC like Busse Cultellus, ...long, thin handle, full thang, any handle material, thin blade long enough to be fully functional.
Also I think that Rosarms shouldd offer a old fashioned high carbon steel blades, sinse there is a lot of traditionalists in USA. Old people say: 'No rust, no trust'.
 
Right now, what I think would really help is availability. Like many, after reading the article in Tactical knives, I would like to try out an Edelweiss or a Cliff, but can not seem to find one available for sale.
 
The Full Tang of the Ray and the micarta handles are a HUGE plus to the knife......not to mention the design!
 
Unsub said:
1 a first rate "super" stainless you pretty much can't do without.
Click to expand...
I think having a good customer service is really important especially at the initial stages. Granted that Russians have really bad reputation in that area, which is well deserved or in other words it is the sad reality.

nozh2002 said:
Let me ask you - Did stacked Bark Birch Fail you? Because I am agree with you on leather and wood and other material used for look mostly, but Birch Bark is very different animal.
Click to expand...
I agree on birch bark being a very good handle material, however just because ti didn't fail for you or works in Russia doesn't mean US market will accept it as the only choice. Either way more options will mean more customers. Not everyone has the same taste.

I do want to see more variety of knives from different countries and have them in their "native" flavors, but materials should not be limited.
 
Last edited:
Gator97 said:
I agree on birch bark being a very good handle material, however just because ti didn't fail for you or works in Russia doesn't mean US market will accept it as the only choice. Either way more options will mean more customers. Not everyone has the same taste.
Click to expand...

Yes, and my point is it should not be limited to micarta. Another point - have a look at this exotic and not familiar for US customers birch bark if you did not, it is very good handle material.

But anyway it will be to naive to say that any of us here are experts in North America knife market and give some strong advices.

What anybody need to succeed in US market is strong marketing and set up business process - like customer service, distribution channels etc. Which Russian learn how to do already very well. Problem I see is that main focus of RosArms if Russian market and here it is more or less representative business. For such big company they just have to be presented here, but most money comes form local customers.

I think that they need take this market more seriously and put more money to set up rolling business here with logistic, marketing, distribution etc... They already have excellent products but this in far from enough to succeed in modern world.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Last edited:
nozh2002 said:
Yes, and my point is it should not be limited to micarta.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

nozh2002 said:
Another point - have a look at this exotic and not familiar for US customers birch bark if you did not, it is very good handle material.
Click to expand...
I've used it quite a bit, long ago though.

nozh2002 said:
But anyway it will be to naive to say that any of us here are experts in North America knife market and give some strong advices.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but I'm an experienced customer ;)

nozh2002 said:
RosArms if Russian market and here it is more or less representative business. For such big company they just have to be presented here, but most money comes form local customers.
Click to expand...
Are they state sponsored or owned or something like that? I don't think in Russia there's a big competition on knife market. And a that rate I think it'll be very long till they adopt any modern steels.
Sux, I really like some of their designs.

Back then, around 3-4 years ago I did try to order a knife from custom maker in Russia, Safronov, I believe U've heard of him. Eventually he said he had no time for my order and told me to come back in few month. So I just gave up.
 
Last edited:
Gator97 said:
Are they state sponsored or owned or something like that? I don't think in Russia there's a big competition on knife market. And a that rate I think it'll be very long till they adopt any modern steels.
Sux, I really like some of their designs.

Back then, around 3-4 years ago I did try to order a knife from custom maker in Russia, Safronov, I believe U've heard of him. Eventually he said he had no time for my order and told me to come back in few month. So I just gave up.
Click to expand...

This is as I understand one of this new company grown up itself, this kind of knife were banned by commies - they afraid anything in people hands being paranoid that they turn it against their beloved rulers... So this is all new and not state owned or sponsored - to my knowledge.

There are quite a few companies from Zlatoust where this business were established little bit less then two centuries ago and I bet was run underground by same craftsmen even under commies - hunters need knives, with or without Communist Party.

About modern steel - Russia is not poor undeveloped country, after World War II it was almost leveled by nazy but in 10 years or so surprise US with Sputnik, then Gagarin etc... It was West who adopted Russian metallurgical advanced technologies - like Electro Slug Remelting (Hitachi in particular first adopted it in Yosuki plant). As well as PM which is known in Russia as metalloceramics for decades.

So I wish US will adopt Electro Slug Remelting to produce BG42 so it will be as good as Russian 110x18MShD (which RosArms uses). And it was purified both by Electro Slug Remelting and Vacuum Arc Remelting to make sure ball bearings will work on Russian space crafts and stations. I wish I also get sometime tool steel X18MF and high speed P6M5...

Russia now has quite a bit of big knife manufacturers. RosArms and bunch of other from Zlatoust, Kizlyar from Kizlyar - both presented here, also Nizhni Novgorod has few - like Marychev and Safronov (they do not really focus on US market at all, I also have some contacts wth someone from Safronov with same results you have - to my it was someone small who just like to pretend "doing business"). So with fastest growing economy even small knife company have good chances to success.

I got Marychev knives and pretty happy with them:

Marichev-Chirok-014.jpg


So do not underestimate Russians (common mistake I see here in many areas, but this is different story).

This is one of Russian website selling knives:
Folders:
http://www.bestblade.ru/catalog/12
Damascus:
http://www.bestblade.ru/catalog/108
Custom:
http://www.bestblade.ru/catalog/161

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I was checking out the Russian language Rosarms site and they already have some cool solid micarta and full tang cord wrapped knives.

I have had all the Rosarms handles except the stacked Birch and aluminuim. The Birch Nodule on my Companion 2 was incredible. The leather stacked on the Fox2 and baby was very nice feeling. Like resc but more give. I did not like the walnut though.

The Russians kept up and in many cases surpassed the US in tech until the early 90's.
They have more titanium than the rest of the world and are experts in it's use so the steel they use it in is going to be good. The fit and finish is incredible as well.

Here I compare my Companion2 with birch nodule handle compared with the king of fit and finish a Chris Reeve Inyoni.

The CR sheath is better but overall the Rosarms does really well and even has more skilled labour time in it.

The next shipment from Russia should be here soon. The reason you can't find any knives in stock is they sold way faster than the company expected especially after the Tactical knives article.

The sheaths are getting better as well. The sheath for one smaller knife really sucked but the ones from the Fox2 and especially the Baby were excellent.
US makers make everything oversize like an SUV so when a knife is not a quarter inch thick and the leather can bend it seems to weak even though it is more than strong enough with proper heat treating

Here is the Baby sheath next to my custom Rainwalker DFLE sheath.

It is one of the nicer production sheaths other than the CR ones I have seen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top