What should I look for when gauging how crappy a knife is?

Leo Greer

Leo Greer

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Dec 30, 2021
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Last week I bought a piece of folding Chinesium (m390) for about $100 on Amazon, and now I'm wondering what I should look for when figuring out what the actual quality of it is. Nothing is immediately obvious. Bearings work well, I won't be able to gauge the edge retention for a while, I'm not going to try and pry open a can with the thing to tell the toughness, and blade play/placement is all good.

SO. What should I be looking for?
 
tokerblue said:
Cut with it. See how long it takes before you need to sharpen it. Sharpen it and see how long it takes to get dull again.
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This is not always a good test. Even higher quality production knives from companies like Spyderco can have fatigued steel from the factory edge being ground hot. Edge retention can improve dramatically after just one sharpening or it may take several edges to see real improvement. Either way, don't expect to have a true gauge for the steel quality until you are several edges down.

Leo Greer said:
... SO. What should I be looking for?
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Even without taking the knife apart for inspection, you should still get a good feel for the fit, finish, lock-up, action, etc. Just remember that like edge retention, action can improve. Some of that is "breaking in", wearing down burrs, etc. Some of that can just be getting from whatever mystery lube is in those bearings from the factory (which can include grit, gunk, grime, etc. from some brands) and slowly transitioning to your preferred lube. These are all reasons that disassembly, inspection, thorough cleaning, and proper lubing are all part of my "new knife" routine.

BTW, you can also draw upon the vast collective experience of members here. A good place to start would be telling us the make and model of this $100 "Chinesium" in M390?
 
Chronovore said:
This is not always a good test. Even higher quality production knives from companies like Spyderco can have fatigued steel from the factory edge being ground hot. Edge retention can improve dramatically after just one sharpening or it may take several edges to see real improvement. Either way, don't expect to have a true gauge for the steel quality until you are several edges down.



Even without taking the knife apart for inspection, you should still get a good feel for the fit, finish, lock-up, action, etc. Just remember that like edge retention, action can improve. Some of that is "breaking in", wearing down burrs, etc. Some of that can just be getting from whatever mystery lube is in those bearings from the factory (which can include grit, gunk, grime, etc. from some brands) and slowly transitioning to your preferred lube. These are all reasons that disassembly, inspection, thorough cleaning, and proper lubing are all part of my "new knife" routine.

BTW, you can also draw upon the vast collective experience of members here. A good place to start would be telling us the make and model of this $100 "Chinesium" in M390?
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Of course! It's called a Foresail. They don't actually have model names, but the number is F-210828...
 
You can find it on Amazon. I can't share a link, as some members of the community might flag me for "advertising".
 
Leo Greer said:
You can find it on Amazon. I can't share a link, as some members of the community might flag me for "advertising".
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That rule is a pain but I understand why it exists.

This is a pretty knife but I'd be concerned that the M390 might not be M390. The problems are three-fold. First, it looks like a lot of knives that are made of cheaper materials, and also like a lot of knives that are sometimes sold with fake steel stamps. Second, this brand doesn't appear to be stocked by any major knife retailers. Third, I've never heard of this brand.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that the steel stamp is fake. I've done a lot of exploration on the fringes, AliExpress, etc. I've purchased mystery-brand knives in D2 and mustard-tested them for fun. For instance, I was one of the first to discover and verify the Petrified Fish brand on another forum. They have since broken though, gained some mainstream appeal, and are now available at White Mountain Knives.

Usually, I won't gamble $100 on a mystery brand until I've seen some confirmation, either in use from an experienced cut tester or someone who has done XRF testing to confirm the steel identity. The LuvThemKnives channel on YouTube has done a lot of the latter. I don't always agree with some of the guesses, like 8Cr14 versus 5Cr15 in some of the obvious fails, but it gives a good general guide for eliminating possible scams. He has yet to test any knives from this company.
 
Okay, so I checked over at AliExpress. While there are some good dealers for some good companies over there, there are also tons of scammers, cloners, counterfeiters, etc. Foresail has a bunch of products over there and what I see does not inspire confidence...

They have models that suspiciously remind me of designs from other companies. They also have a few knives that look too good to be true for the materials. For instance, one model is supposedly a titanium frame lock with ceramic bearings and an M390 blade for only $65...
 
It's easier for me to list the characteristics that I believe make for a quality folding knife-

Opens and closes smoothly and without difficulty.

Locks up tight and secure (slip joints aren't my thing).

The blade doesn't scrape the liners.

The edge doesn't hit anything when the knife is closed.

The blade takes a shaving-sharp edge.

The blade holds it's edge for a reasonable amount of cutting (reasonable based on the type of steel)

Clean threads on all the screws, pivot, posts, etc.

Reasonably even grinds.

Good fit and finish (everything fitted together well), no blade play, and no inappropriately sharp edges.

And then just a basic, overall solid, quality feel to it.
 
Good points all.

What my question would be, is what does it actually cost to produce said titanium frame lock + m390, when you factor in things like costless labor (or nearly), and the bulk price of both metals, given that the knife has a 2.68" blade and 3.15" handle.

I don't know that I'm smart enough to answer that question without serious research.
 
killgar said:
It's easier for me to list the characteristics that I believe make for a quality folding knife-

Opens and closes smoothly and without difficulty.

Locks up tight and secure (slip joints aren't my thing).

The blade doesn't scrape the liners.

The edge doesn't hit anything when the knife is closed.

The blade takes a shaving-sharp edge.

The blade holds it's edge for a reasonable amount of cutting (reasonable based on the type of steel)

Clean threads on all the screws, pivot, posts, etc.

Reasonably even grinds.

Good fit and finish (everything fitted together well), and no inappropriately sharp edges.

And then just a basic, overall solid, quality feel to it.
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I would also throw in that it continues to perform over months/years. In which case I'll be waiting a little bit. I own a knockoff-ish OTF (having bought it knowing it was a knockoff) that's just falling apart after about eight months. Despite having seemed cheap but okay when I got it.
 
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