What stainless performs best in the 54-56 Rc range?

G

gomipile

Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
1,343
I'm considering making some kitchen knives for a place where sharpening steels are used a lot. So, the knives need to be in the mid 50's of the Rc range in hardness.

What stainless alloys will perform best when heat treated to be in the 54 to 56 Rc range? Most of my research has been into either stainless alloys that work best at 60+ Rc or non stainless alloys that work well in the 55-57 Rc range.
 
Last edited:
For stainless, most will come out well including 12C47, 440-C, ATS34, M390, Elmax, CPM154, and 154CM. Frank
 
Stainless or not, I can't see why any kitchen knife should be tempered that low.

Quality knives with thin, keen edges at 58-60Rc can be easily maintained by steeling or honing, less often.

Making a soft knife that's super easy to sharpen or hone is false economy at best. If the people using such knives beat hell out of them, I suspect it would be more efficient to use a higher hardness and a less-acute edge.
 
Ah, so 58-60 Rc won't cause problems when steeled? I know 62+Rc knives sometimes don't take well to steeling.
 
Geometry is more important than alloy or hardness, when it comes to getting and keeping a blade sharp. Thin, acute edges respond well to stropping, steeling and honing with fine stones - there's just not a lot of material that needs to be removed or aligned to get the edge back into good shape.
 
james terrio said:
Stainless or not, I can't see why any kitchen knife should be tempered that low.

Quality knives with thin, keen edges at 58-60Rc can be easily maintained by steeling or honing, less often.

Making a soft knife that's super easy to sharpen or hone is false economy at best. If the people using such knives beat hell out of them, I suspect it would be more efficient to use a higher hardness and a less-acute edge.
Click to expand...

1+ :thumbup:

Exactly.
No reason for a knife to be tempered that low.
 
james terrio said:
Geometry is more important than alloy or hardness, when it comes to getting and keeping a blade sharp. Thin, acute edges respond well to stropping, steeling and honing with fine stones - there's just not a lot of material that needs to be removed or aligned to get the edge back into good shape.
Click to expand...

The reasons for my question have more to do with psychology than geometry. Specifically, the knives WILL be used by people who WILL use steels on the knives a lot. There is nothing I can do about that, and trying to "convince" these people otherwise will only cause bad feelings. Given that, I need to make sure that these knives will respond well to being steeled.

This thread is about steel, not geometry or sharpening techniques. I'm not going to try to "educate" my customer, I'm going to do my best to provide them with a product that works well with their way of doing things.

Edit: Just to be clear, you seem to be implying I could use any steel at any optimum hardness with a thin edge and it wouldn't chip if steeled by anyone that knife is used by. I know for a fact that some steels at some hardness values will chip when steeled. I wouldn't give them a knife with a hardness of 65+ Rc, because it could easily chip if something went just a little wrong.

For myself, I would use a 65+ Rc knife in my own kitchen, because I know how I would maintain such a blade.
 
Last edited:
I don't understand how one can chip any edge by steeling it. :confused:

Unless the person "steeling" the knife has absolutely no clue what they're doing and is hacking away at it like they're trying to whittle the steel down to a toothpick (as seen on TV). In which case, I recommend cheap knives with thick edges.
 
Last edited:
the higher hardness knives use the glass rod not a steel (for those reading steels are grooved to make micro serrations glass rods are not )

that said i get the point in making the knife for the customer adn the way they will use it (i do this too to a point ) maybe see it SB metals has BD1 steel for you or XHP BD1 is set to be hardened around 56-58 and is priced well if i remember i even think you could get away with XHP at 60 and still have it act fine on the steel
with the use of the knives i woudl have to guess you are working at a lower price point so the BD1 might be right up your ally
 
Many people do "steel" their knives by doing what I can only call banging their edges into the steel at random angles between 10 and 30 degrees. Check out Gordon Ramseys youtube sharpening videos.
 
I think this is a really important viewpoint- we like to make really nice knives for people who appreciate and take proper care of them, and if we choose to make working knives for people who have a limited interest in proper care, it's really smart to consider what the conditions are going to be, and how the knife will respond.

My limited experience says that most cooks are happier with a light stainless blade in the 56/58 range- the harder steels tend to sit on the rack because they don't want to have to actually work to sharpen them- if a quick swipe doesn't do it, it won't get done.

Me, I use non-stainless simple steels tempered harder....but I don't pay myself for my own kitchen knives.
If I want some money, I make what my customers want.

In that range, 440c is perfect- you're not using the great capabilities of newer steels, so why pay 2-3 times as much?
The kind of cooks he's talking about are pretty unlikely to want to pay $30-40 more for alphabet soup.

Andy
 
As posted above. Good info. The 12c47 is a nice flexible steel. If you could put cpm-154 12c47 together we would have something
 
I was thinking 440C, AEB-L, or the equivalent Sandvik. Consulting y'all is always a good idea though, especially if I think I know the answer. Often, I'm wrong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top