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What steel is a French Briquet IN XI made of?
- Thread starter megnin
- Start date
horseclover
Basic Member
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2000
- Messages
- 3,489
What are the marks on the blade? Where exactly made?
Blister steel or at times further refiined in a crucible but still not of Bessemer quality/regularity steels.
How tough does a disposable tool need to be? We are talking about equipment for those meant to be cannon fodder. Cast handles and in the case of the French briquet simply metal cut to length and formed in rolling mills and then ground. The iron ore coming from the same valleys Krupp used for many, many decades and the same sources for ore for most of Europe.
I have both both blister steel antiques as well as cast and blister steel reigned well into the 19th century. Ironically (pun intended) the Scandinavians long ago (in the way olden days) decarbed slag to use for steel while blister is the adding of carbon to wrought iron.
Both blister and cast steel blades will turn up with voids and faults. The Alsace area was doing ok with hejat treatment so one might expect a good spring temper with about a 45-50 hrc. Of course, after splitting kindling and then roasting on the sword probabaly means some will be pretty soft.
Again, a disposable piece of equipment that cost as little as possible to produce.
Here is a bit of a pdf. Feel free to trust the link. French military swords 18th century
https://files.myopera.com/3sails/files/FRENCH MILITARY SWORD IN 18th CENTURY _PartII_.pdf
The briquet came to be in the 1760s.
Cheers
GC
Blister steel or at times further refiined in a crucible but still not of Bessemer quality/regularity steels.
How tough does a disposable tool need to be? We are talking about equipment for those meant to be cannon fodder. Cast handles and in the case of the French briquet simply metal cut to length and formed in rolling mills and then ground. The iron ore coming from the same valleys Krupp used for many, many decades and the same sources for ore for most of Europe.
I have both both blister steel antiques as well as cast and blister steel reigned well into the 19th century. Ironically (pun intended) the Scandinavians long ago (in the way olden days) decarbed slag to use for steel while blister is the adding of carbon to wrought iron.
Both blister and cast steel blades will turn up with voids and faults. The Alsace area was doing ok with hejat treatment so one might expect a good spring temper with about a 45-50 hrc. Of course, after splitting kindling and then roasting on the sword probabaly means some will be pretty soft.
Again, a disposable piece of equipment that cost as little as possible to produce.
Here is a bit of a pdf. Feel free to trust the link. French military swords 18th century
https://files.myopera.com/3sails/files/FRENCH MILITARY SWORD IN 18th CENTURY _PartII_.pdf
The briquet came to be in the 1760s.
Cheers
GC
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2012
- Messages
- 222
Hi horseclover,
Thank you very much for the information. The particular item I was looking at in the auction site showed a couple of stamps on the blade and handle, but I don't know anything about where they were made. My interest in the item was more because of the blade length and design. I was hopeing the original swords were well made, but if not then I'll look for something more modern. I would love to get a well made short sword of the exact same design as the French Briquet In XI, except for maybe the handle material. The blade design is exactly what I'd like, but maybe in 1060, 1095, 5160 or 9260. INFI would be nice.
Scorpion Swords and Knives say they will make a sword per your design from 1095. This is close to what I'd like, but I like the curved blade of the Briquet.
http://www.traditionalarcherybows.com/handmade_grosse_messer_hunting_sword_p39.html
Cheers,
David
Thank you very much for the information. The particular item I was looking at in the auction site showed a couple of stamps on the blade and handle, but I don't know anything about where they were made. My interest in the item was more because of the blade length and design. I was hopeing the original swords were well made, but if not then I'll look for something more modern. I would love to get a well made short sword of the exact same design as the French Briquet In XI, except for maybe the handle material. The blade design is exactly what I'd like, but maybe in 1060, 1095, 5160 or 9260. INFI would be nice.
Scorpion Swords and Knives say they will make a sword per your design from 1095. This is close to what I'd like, but I like the curved blade of the Briquet.http://www.traditionalarcherybows.com/handmade_grosse_messer_hunting_sword_p39.html
Cheers,
David
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2012
- Messages
- 222
Hi horseclover,
Thank you very much for the information. The particular item I was looking at in the auction site showed a couple of stamps on the blade and handle, but I don't know anything about where they were made. My interest in the item was more because of the blade length and design. I was hopeing the original swords were well made, but if not then I'll look for something more modern. I would love to get a well made short sword of the exact same design as the French Briquet In XI, except for maybe the handle material. The blade design is exactly what I'd like, but maybe in 1060, 1095, 5160 or 9260. INFI would be nice. Scorpion Swords and Knives say they will make a sword per your design from 1095. This is close to what I'd like, but I like the curved blade of the Briquet.
http://www.traditionalarcherybows.com/handmade_grosse_messer_hunting_sword_p39.html
Cheers,
David
Thank you very much for the information. The particular item I was looking at in the auction site showed a couple of stamps on the blade and handle, but I don't know anything about where they were made. My interest in the item was more because of the blade length and design. I was hopeing the original swords were well made, but if not then I'll look for something more modern. I would love to get a well made short sword of the exact same design as the French Briquet In XI, except for maybe the handle material. The blade design is exactly what I'd like, but maybe in 1060, 1095, 5160 or 9260. INFI would be nice.
Scorpion Swords and Knives say they will make a sword per your design from 1095. This is close to what I'd like, but I like the curved blade of the Briquet.http://www.traditionalarcherybows.com/handmade_grosse_messer_hunting_sword_p39.html
Cheers,
David
horseclover
Basic Member
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2000
- Messages
- 3,489
Well, I guess it all depends on what one wants and what the use will be. Consider the old briquet were pretty much just a step up from a machete anyway.
Fwiw, I do cut with period swords from time to time and one bought specifically for that purpose. It is (although longer) a thinner blade than the briquet. I don't use it as a machete though abd don't split wood or break cinder blocks. I really don't know what your expectations are but a period briquet would do fine for camp stuff up to chopping sticks, splitting moderate clear straight grain, opening champagne bottles or even for the original purpose as a weapon. I remain somewhat dumbfounded that swords are the choice of the masses for non sword work.
Axes I have. Large knives suited to woodcraft, I have. Smaller knives for other purposes. The cold factor doesn't really ring my bell as wanting a sword for camp craft but I did used to have a favorite brush sword.
Cheers
GC
Fwiw, I do cut with period swords from time to time and one bought specifically for that purpose. It is (although longer) a thinner blade than the briquet. I don't use it as a machete though abd don't split wood or break cinder blocks. I really don't know what your expectations are but a period briquet would do fine for camp stuff up to chopping sticks, splitting moderate clear straight grain, opening champagne bottles or even for the original purpose as a weapon. I remain somewhat dumbfounded that swords are the choice of the masses for non sword work.
Axes I have. Large knives suited to woodcraft, I have. Smaller knives for other purposes. The cold factor doesn't really ring my bell as wanting a sword for camp craft but I did used to have a favorite brush sword.
Cheers
GC
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2012
- Messages
- 222
Sorry for the double post above. Not sure what happened there.
I appreciate your comments and agree with every point. As far as my expectations for the use of a short sword, period or otherwise, pretty much just comes down to me having an obsessive compulsive habit of collecting things that I don't need.
I enjoy camping, but I have a hatchet... and twelve tomahawks.
I did just today pick up a period Briquet on the auction site for about the price of a good machete, so I'm happy now. Satisfied my O.C. for the time being anyway.
Thanks for listening.
Cheers,
David
I appreciate your comments and agree with every point. As far as my expectations for the use of a short sword, period or otherwise, pretty much just comes down to me having an obsessive compulsive habit of collecting things that I don't need.
I enjoy camping, but I have a hatchet... and twelve tomahawks.
I did just today pick up a period Briquet on the auction site for about the price of a good machete, so I'm happy now. Satisfied my O.C. for the time being anyway.
Thanks for listening.
Cheers,
David
horseclover
Basic Member
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2000
- Messages
- 3,489
Very cool. If you can post a clear picture of any marks, I may have sheets that cover them.
Cheers
GC
Cheers
GC
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2012
- Messages
- 222
The sword arrived a few days ago. It has not a single stamp or mark anywhere on the blade or handle. It appears to be old, but I couldn't say how old. For what I paid for it, I can't complain. I've paid more for small, production, pocket knives.
I do like the size, weight and balance of this blade, though, compaired to a 33" katana or a CS 1796 Light Cavelry Saber, the only other swords I have to compair it with.
I do like the size, weight and balance of this blade, though, compaired to a 33" katana or a CS 1796 Light Cavelry Saber, the only other swords I have to compair it with.
horseclover
Basic Member
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- Nov 21, 2000
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- 3,489
Great first impression. It is often the case with period swords that a bit of a light bulb appears in appreciating an old sword. To be honest, I have some clunkers in my period collection, despite their being very attractive. Some other seeming quite plain will be surprising in how lively they seem. Although prices for antiques escalated over the years, they have been pretty stable the past decade or so and really the time to jump when one has a chance. Although there are still a great many out there circulating, it is (in the end) a limited resource.
To put modern vs period in further perspective, a move this past year saw me boxing everything up and it is the antiques that got unpacked first. There is probably still room in my future for newly made swords but even for cutting, I seem to get more out of the old ones.
Are you able to share any pictures of your new adoption?
Cheers
GC
To put modern vs period in further perspective, a move this past year saw me boxing everything up and it is the antiques that got unpacked first. There is probably still room in my future for newly made swords but even for cutting, I seem to get more out of the old ones.
Are you able to share any pictures of your new adoption?
Cheers
GC
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2012
- Messages
- 222
All of my picture taking devices have dead batteries at the moment. I was going to take some quick shots. It's just as well. The light will be better in the daytime tomorrow and I'll take it outside.
I really, really appreciate your perspective and the information you are giving me. I currently only have this briquet, the CS Cavelry Saber I mentioned, which was my first sword just a couple of months ago and the katana I got right after the CS.
The Katana seem like a good blade for a modern made Chinese sword. I think it's from one of the decent forges, at least from what I've read. It's a Huanuo Forge Penji Katana. I got it from this guy: http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?111822-Huanuo-Forge-Penji-Katana
This is about the only other thing I could find about it: http://www.katana-samurai-sword.com/huanuo---fred-chen-penjikatanahuanuoforgesamuraisword-p-613.html
I do now have an itch for more period swords. I would really like to get a better example of the briquet. I like it a lot even though it's not much to look at.
Here are the pics from the auction and the description as it was posted:
I really, really appreciate your perspective and the information you are giving me. I currently only have this briquet, the CS Cavelry Saber I mentioned, which was my first sword just a couple of months ago and the katana I got right after the CS.
The Katana seem like a good blade for a modern made Chinese sword. I think it's from one of the decent forges, at least from what I've read. It's a Huanuo Forge Penji Katana. I got it from this guy: http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?111822-Huanuo-Forge-Penji-Katana
This is about the only other thing I could find about it: http://www.katana-samurai-sword.com/huanuo---fred-chen-penjikatanahuanuoforgesamuraisword-p-613.html
I do now have an itch for more period swords. I would really like to get a better example of the briquet. I like it a lot even though it's not much to look at.
Here are the pics from the auction and the description as it was posted: