What steel is the mystery knife

I

ichor

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Aug 27, 2002
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Back in the '70's I bought a knife that was made by a guy who never became famous. I was hoping he would (name of Pharris). At the time I knew even less than I do today about knives, steel, etc.

He told me that the knife was made from the same material that they were using, at tme, to make rocket nose cones. Yeah, I know, laugh. I didn't believe him at the time either, but it's the only clue I have.

Now this knife takes an incredible edge, incredibly easy to sharpen and holds it for a long time. After acquiring a Sharpmaker, some years back, that goes double. It also appears to very resistant to stains or rusting or corrosion of any kind (like not a spot on it for 25 years).

So, the question is: Is there anyway to determine the type of steel used in the making of a knife, once the knife is made? It's not like you can cut off a little piece and have it analyzed. Or is it? How can I find out what this thing is made of?? Or can I??

John in Boise
 
It's not like you can cut off a little piece and have it analyzed. Or is it?
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But of course.

I believe that x-ray crytalography or Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Spectrometry could determine that. Neither of these is destructive. Both are, however, expensive. How expensive? It'll probably cost about $300 to answer your question.
 
Originally posted by Gollnick
But of course.

I believe that x-ray crytalography or Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Spectrometry could determine that. Neither of these is destructive. Both are, however, expensive. How expensive? It'll probably cost about $300 to answer your question.
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Thanks, Gollnick, but maybe I'll buy another nice knife instead? ;-)

John in Boise
 
If you have a university around you somewhere might call them and see if their chem dept. would do analysis for you for free or small fee.
 
Rocket... could it be a "Maraging Steel"?

Maraging Steels (Martensitic Aging Steels) are very different spieces... no carbon, very high nickel, with either cobalt or titanium (or both) as precipitation hardening medium... They soften in the quench, and harden upon aging! (Supposingly, this makes them somehow very easy to "forge" {cold forming actually?} and to heat treat) They have ULTRA high strength + toughness (10X higher than any "knife steels" we've come across)... most of them don't have very good hardness, except for a grade which has high cobalt and no titanium (can't remember the exact designation to the grade, but "Allvac" has one called "VasoMaxC-350"...), supposingly can be used as a "tooling steel", and so should be able to be made into some "good" knives. (How "good"? God knows!)

These maraging steels are usually for the most demanding tasks, e.g. rocket parts, landing gear, naval armour, etc. Sometimes we found it in sports of "the rich" too, e.g. the best of sport fencing weapons, golf club's head, etc. They are VERY expensive, about 10X the price of most of the "best" stainless knife steels... so, even if they are good, no blade smith will try them.

(Here is another example for blade smiths not keen on trying out expensive materials... the Japanese has already developed a new generation of ATS-34 {NO! I am not talking about ATS-55...}, known as ZDP189... supposingly this steel can easily reach the hardness of 70Rc!! Why don't we see any knife made from it, nor even have we heard about it? The truth is, it costs a bomb!! The material itself is more expensive than most production knife we can find in the market!! As I understand, there is only one Japanese knife company produces a ATS / ZDP "San Mai" knife from it, and I don't find the price tag attractive at all...)
 
hurmm I m a fencer and some fencing blades go up to about a 100 bucks, that’s about the highest I've seen...they are called gold and super blue blades, could be the same stuff? :confused: Always wondered why they were called that...:confused:
 
Originally posted by Will'em
hurmm I m a fencer and some fencing blades go up to about a 100 bucks, that’s about the highest I've seen...they are called gold and super blue blades, could be the same stuff? :confused: Always wondered why they were called that...:confused:
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Just noticed you called it Maraging Steel that’s what they called the stuff, yep its the same, :eek: cool, now I’m defiantly gunna get one:D
 
Originally posted by Medic1210
Heck, just find out what rocket nose cones were made of in the 70's and voila! :p

Mike
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Thanks, Mike, why didn't I think of that?

John in Boise
 
Interesting thread..., if you find out what the material is.., we'd love to know...


"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
I would be more inclined to guess that the explanation that the alloy was used in missile nose cones was wrong. I suspect that what the knife maker was told (and that he corrupted in the retelling) was that the steel was an aerospace alloy developed for the missile industry. That fits 154CM (ATS-34) which Bob Loveless started using around 1970. There was big hype in the 70's about this "space age alloy". If that is true I am somewhat surprised that you find it easy to sharpen. Maybe it is heat treated a little softer than is common for 154CM or is a particularly good batch.
 
Hi,

This probably won't be of any help:D, but I found the following steels referenced when I searched "steel type used in rocket construction 1970".

1) 52100.
2) Various Chrome-Moly 4000 series steels.
3) Various 300 series Stainless steels.
4) various 400 series Stainless steels, 440C being the most referenced:).

Steel used in rocket nose construction yielded the same stuff.


HTH:D:)
 
Originally posted by Jeff Clark
........ That fits 154CM (ATS-34) which Bob Loveless started using around 1970. There was big hype in the 70's about this "space age alloy". If that is true I am somewhat surprised that you find it easy to sharpen. Maybe it is heat treated a little softer than is common for 154CM or is a particularly good batch. [/B]
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As I recall, this guy was a little flakey so it would not be surprising that he might have gotten his wires crossed. Maybe I should just be happy that it is easy to sharpen, and holds an edge well, and forget about what it's made of? ;-)

John in Boise
 
Originally posted by bob bowie
Hi,

This probably won't be of any help:D, but I found the following steels referenced when I searched "steel type used in rocket construction 1970".

1) 52100.
2) Various Chrome-Moly 4000 series steels.
3) Various 300 series Stainless steels.
4) various 400 series Stainless steels, 440C being the most referenced:).

Steel used in rocket nose construction yielded the same stuff.


HTH:D:)
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Great! So what you're telling me is that it could be damn near anything? ;-)

John in Boise
 
I think it's either 440c, or 154cm based on your description, and what makers were using at the time.
 
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