What strop compound/spray to use after a 8k Shapton Glass stone?

J

joepa150

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Mar 15, 2010
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My last/finishing stone is an 8k Shapton Glass Stone which I believe is about 1.84 microns. If I were to start stropping, what should I use? Just leather or Balsa? How about if I bought a compound to put on the Balsa or leather? I don't want to buy multiple compounds since they seem to be expensive so I just want to buy one to use after the 8k.

I also tried the green crayon type compound from sears. I dislike it very much since it is hard for me to apply an even coating. I actually have been using Flitz since it is easier to apply and it gives me ok results.
 
According to the manufacturer, Flitz is about ~3 microns or so (aluminum oxide abrasive). As with any compound, how it performs varies hugely, depending on the substrate, steel being stropped, etc.

As ugly as the green stick compounds apply to a substrate, to leather or whatever, they'll still prove useful with some steels. I like green the best with simpler steels, like 1095 and basic stainless (420/440/etc). With the stick compounds, I've developed a preference for applying them to slightly rougher/nappier surfaces, like the 'rough' side of leather, or on smooth leather that's been sanded a little bit to give it some velvety nap (holds the green compound very well). DON'T sand strops that have been professionally processed for razors (such as Illinois/barber's strops/horsehide/etc.); I only do this with simple veg-tanned leather. After applying it on such a surface, I'll wipe the surface with a dry paper towel, which helps distribute the compound a little more evenly. The pic below is of one of my strop blocks, with sanded leather and green compound applied as described above:

On more wear-resistant steels like S30V, D2, etc., sometimes green seems not to work as well, and other compounds like silicon carbide or diamond perform better. I think 1 micron diamond is a pretty good all-around compound for such steels (I use DMT 1 micron diamond paste).


David
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
According to the manufacturer, Flitz is about ~3 microns or so (aluminum oxide abrasive). As with any compound, how it performs varies hugely, depending on the substrate, steel being stropped, etc.

As ugly as the green stick compounds apply to a substrate, to leather or whatever, they'll still prove useful with some steels. I like green the best with simpler steels, like 1095 and basic stainless (420/440/etc). With the stick compounds, I've developed a preference for applying them to slightly rougher/nappier surfaces, like the 'rough' side of leather, or on smooth leather that's been sanded a little bit to give it some velvety nap (holds the green compound very well). DON'T sand strops that have been professionally processed for razors (such as Illinois/barber's strops/horsehide/etc.); I only do this with simple veg-tanned leather. After applying it on such a surface, I'll wipe the surface with a dry paper towel, which helps distribute the compound a little more evenly. The pic below is of one of my strop blocks, with sanded leather and green compound applied as described above:

eb11eb06.jpg


On more wear-resistant steels like S30V, D2, etc., sometimes green seems not to work as well, and other compounds like silicon carbide or diamond perform better. I think 1 micron diamond is a pretty good all-around compound for such steels (I use DMT 1 micron diamond paste).


David
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I am too lazy to post a pic but when I apply the green compound, it gets clumpy in some spots.

So I guess when I go from my 8k Shapton (1.84 microns) to a strop with Flitz (~3 microns), I am actually taking a step backwards?
 
After an 8K sharpton glass stone, I would use un treated leather if I thought I needed more. Is it not scarysharp after the stone? Very light strokes on the strop if you use one. Just my un-educated guess.

Omar
 
joepa150 said:
I am too lazy to post a pic but when I apply the green compound, it gets clumpy in some spots.

So I guess when I go from my 8k Shapton (1.84 microns) to a strop with Flitz (~3 microns), I am actually taking a step backwards?
Click to expand...

Looking at the grand unified grit chart sir? And I guess you would be taking a step backwards. Although alot of stropping compounds break down into alot smaller particles as they are used. And being of Aluminum oxide, I would suppose the grit breaks down further in the Flitz.
 
joepa150 said:
I am too lazy to post a pic but when I apply the green compound, it gets clumpy in some spots.

So I guess when I go from my 8k Shapton (1.84 microns) to a strop with Flitz (~3 microns), I am actually taking a step backwards?
Click to expand...

Maybe, and maybe not. The substrate on which the compound is used will make a difference, because not all of the 3-micron size of the particles will be in contact with the blade. The softer leather of the strop effectively 'cushions' the honing, so larger particles embedded in that soft substrate will perform like a smaller grit on a hard/firm backing (such as with the stone). I think about it in terms like spreading gravel on two surfaces, and then taking a barefoot stroll on each; one surface is hard concrete, and the other is a deep, thick shag carpet. One of those two gravel-sprinkled surfaces is going to be a lot less 'uncomfortable' to walk on in your bare feet, because of the 'cushion' afforded by it. ;)

I sometimes use Simichrome on a strop (leather on oak, treated just like the green strop I pictured earlier), and it's particle size is somewhere around ~9 microns. It polishes to a higher degree than a stone would at much smaller grit.

Another example is DMT's EEF diamond grit. On their hard steel-backed hones, the EEF (3 micron) will cut more aggressively, and leave coarser scratches than the very same 3 micron grit in their Dia-Paste on a leather strop (or on something like balsa wood). The 3-micron paste will polish more effectively, due to the way in which it's typically used (on softer backing).


David
 
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joepa150 said:
I am too lazy to post a pic but when I apply the green compound, it gets clumpy in some spots.
(...)
Click to expand...

On that point, just lightly 'crayon' the compound onto the leather in a cross-hatch pattern (I like diagonally criss-crossing the strop, with each 'stripe' about 1/2" apart). Whatever clumpy, large chunks are there, just brush them off with the paper towel. The green streaks left embedded into the leather are all you'll need. It's that embedded compound that gets most/all of the real work done. And it doesn't take much at all; just enough to tint the leather green, but not enough to completely obscure the leather.


David
 
You should first define what it is you want to achieve with your stropping and why. If your goal is a good, keen edge for kitchen or general EDC cutting work, you can just finish stropping on an old pair of jeans or the back of an old leather belt after that 8K glass stone. In fact, you don't even have to go as fine as the 8K. If you want to use sprays or compounds on different backings, first ask why and what you are trying to achieve. If it's a personal challenge to see if you cut a hanging hair or something like that, then that is fine, too, but the right tools depend on the job to be done.
 
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Has anyone here tried the Tormek Honing Paste. I know a number of carvers like using it on their carving knives. I believe it's around 3 microns. They feel the green compound has too much wax in it.
 
Lately I've been getting some really great edges for my edc's going straight from green XF DMT then stropping on Kangaroo leather thats sprayed with .5u Polycrystaline diamond spray, my edges seem to last a good bit longer also:thumbup:
 
Magnaminous_G said:
You should first define what it is you want to achieve with your stropping and why. If your goal is a good, keen edge for kitchen or general EDC cutting work, you can just finish stropping on an old pair of jeans or the back of an old leather belt after that 8K glass stone. In fact, you don't even have to go as fine as the 8K. If you want to use sprays or compounds on different backings, first ask why and what you are trying to achieve. If it's a personal challenge to see if you cut a hanging hair or something like that, then that is fine, too, but the right tools depend on the job to be done.
Click to expand...

I want an edge that is just as sharp if not sharper but I also want a more polished edge.
 
joepa150 said:
As sharp as the knife is before I strop.
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As sharp as the knife was before you stropped? That's easy. A few minutes of stropping on an old pair of jeans will clean up the last tiny artifacts on the edge and smooth out the edge somewhat. The tool which will aid you in achieving that goal is probably lying on the floor next to you and won't cost you a dime. :D :D :D
 
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I know you said strop for a polished edge, but would a 16k Shapton not be the next logical step?
 
me2 said:
I know you said strop for a polished edge, but would a 16k Shapton not be the next logical step?
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I was thinking that also. I was just hoping that after the 8k, I could get a bit more polish from stropping and also smooth out the edge. This way I can save some money.
 
I get near mirror edges off my 4k stone. Does the 8k not give a mirror edge? Perhaps you just need to spend more time at each grit to be sure the previous scratches are gone.
 
For the naked eyes, mirror occurs around 1micron for simple & low (V,W) alloy steels. Otherwise, take 0.5micron polishes to achieve mirror appearance. It's quite inexpensive to buy 1 & 0.5 micron diamond paste to mirror strop. Grind a bevel 3* lower than your working/normal bevel, mirror polish it without worrying about the edge. Afterward sharpen with normal angle (which is a micro-bevel) up to your 8k stone. Voi'la, you've a mirror bevel and a tiny 8K finished micro bevel. Oh, once you learn how to strop (see sticky), these diamond paste will push your edge another couple notch in sharpness (lol - could call it novelty edge, unless you shave with ur edc).
 
Op I hope you don't mind me butting in. I just wanted to say that I'm glad that I read this thread. I used the Crayon type stick to treat my new strop and it was fairly chunky. The idea of using a paper towel never crossed my mind, but it also spurred me on to waving the strop slowly over the stove. Not getting it hot, but just enough to evenly distribute the polish. It worked quite nicely indeed. I'll try to post a pic in a few. :)

Edit- eh... not the best pic but its pretty even. The nap will lay evenly when you brush your hand across it. The leather was black.

IMAG0408.jpg


Okay, I'm done interrupting.
 
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