Recommendation? What to do with this steel.

paranoidsentry

paranoidsentry

Joined
Apr 1, 2010
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I posted on here years ago planning to make a knife from a railroad spike. Unfortunantly life got in the way, and then I lost the spikes during a move.

Now I finally have time to try and make a few knives. This time I intend to do stock removal. My uncle heard and gave me this piece of tool steel he had in his garage. He didn't remember where it came from just that it was tool steel.
PPRATm6.jpg

The first part is obviously the measurements. Based on the second have I assume it is D2. Is that a safe assumption?

Now 1/2 inch is much to thick for knives so I intend to look into having a local machine shop cut it down. Since D2 is an air hardening steel, water jet cutting seems to me the best option. Am I correct, would laser or some other cutting method be better?

Lastly, is this plan even reasonable? Should I just set this steel aside until I start forging? From what I understand D2 is difficult to forge and needs to be kept between 1700° and 1900° ferinheight, ideal at 1800°.
 
The railroad spikes was a blessing in disguise - they're more novelty than knife. Has that steel bar been annealed? You're questions are outside my wheelhouse.
 
Phixt said:
The railroad spikes was a blessing in disguise - they're more novelty than knife. Has that steel bar been annealed? You're questions are outside my wheelhouse.
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I am not positive, but a file will cut into it instead of skipping off, so my bet is that it has been annealed.
 
I would set it aside for later use. Even when you start forging I would not touch this. D2 can be forged but it's tricky becaus it's high alloy and being an air hardening steel. D2 is a great steel but honestly it's not worth trying to cut down into thinner bar stock. It's also tough to finish compared to other beginner steels that are rather cheep.
 
Lots of free time and a milling machine would do it. But I'd save that piece for making tools, and buy thinner stock. I haven't cut down a piece of 1" thick O1 plate I've got for that exact reason
 
Agree with saving it to build tools in the future.

It's going to cost a lot more to thin that down than just buying some 5/32 or 3/16 thick stock.
 
I'd start by making a really hard and flat file guide. If you're able to make it really nice and it's not too much trouble, make some more and sell them
 
Kevin McGovern said:
How do you intend to heat treat it?
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To be honest I hadn't figured that out yet. From my research D2 should be heat treated in salt or a vacuum furnace to prevent scaling. I don't have access to either of those. I would probably have found a place to take/send them off for heat treatment.


So what I am getting, is that even if it weren't to expensive (I have no idea how much it would cost), I will be much better off starting with an easier steel. I had planned to do that originally, but can't find a local steel source (not for anything I wouldnuse to make a knife). And shipping to Alaska comes out to more than the cost of most steels. I can probably get my hands on some old leaf springs. I am open to suggestions.
 
KBC tools would be worth a shot. They sell O1 and A2 flat bar. Really good prices too. And orders over $50 or so are flat rate $9 shipping.
Precision ground O1 from them is substantially less than mill finish O1 from Canadian knifemaker supply
 
Buy your steel from AKS and they'll ship it in a USPS flat rate box. Doesn't matter if it's going to AK or next door.

I could tell you exactly what our shop would charge to mill that bar down to a useful thickness for you, but that's only a portion of the "cost." The other portion is that you're turning the majority of your bar into chips. You won't find anyone willing to split it into two <.250" thicknesses for you. So you're turning a $200 bar of steel into a $50 bar of steel, and paying around $150 to have it done.

Then you're talking about $18 per blade to have it heat treated from Trugrit, which is about the least expensive way to send out 2-3 blades.

When you're sending out for HT you basically have 2 options. Send out few blanks for the best per blank price, or send out a batch for the best quantity price. Here's a little breakdown of what it would cost you to use that bar of D2 the way you're asking, rather than buying 80CRV2 from Alpha Knife Supply (I understand D2 is not comparable to 80CRV2, but this comparison is about what it would cost to use "free" D2, and 80CRV2 is a great steel for a beginner who's sending out for HT anyway).

This assumes all shipping done by USPS flat rate, Trugrit pricing for 4 cryo'd, wrapped blanks, Bos pricing for a batch HT.

TxOJKyn.jpg


Even if you place 0 value on the bar you turn into chips, which would be wrong, as it is a fantastic piece to make file guides as stated previously, or other tools from, it's still an incredibly expensive way to start making knives.

You can get 9 bars of 80CRV2 in .148 thickness shipped to you for less than the cost of milling that D2 to size. Your heat treat per blade for sending out 20 blanks drops from $18 per to $4.25 per plus shipping.
 
paranoidsentry said:
This time I intend to do stock removal.
I assume it is D2. Is that a safe assumption?

Now 1/2 inch is much to thick for knives so I intend to look into having a local machine shop cut it down. Since D2 is an air hardening steel, water jet cutting seems to me the best option. Am I correct, would laser or some other cutting method be better?

Lastly, is this plan even reasonable? Should I just set this steel aside until I start forging? .
Click to expand...

Good questions, good on you for asking if it's reasonable

Yes I would assume it's D2, that thick is a pricey piece of steel.
I'd keep it for hard grinder flat platens.
Don't forge D2

I wouldn't have it cut, you can buy more steel cheaper and it will be flatter.
http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/shop/1084hc/

Try stock removal before forging.
 
kuraki said:
Buy your steel from AKS and they'll ship it in a USPS flat rate box. Doesn't matter if it's going to AK or next door.

I could tell you exactly what our shop would charge to mill that bar down to a useful thickness for you, but that's only a portion of the "cost." The other portion is that you're turning the majority of your bar into chips. You won't find anyone willing to split it into two <.250" thicknesses for you. So you're turning a $200 bar of steel into a $50 bar of steel, and paying around $150 to have it done.

Then you're talking about $18 per blade to have it heat treated from Trugrit, which is about the least expensive way to send out 2-3 blades.

When you're sending out for HT you basically have 2 options. Send out few blanks for the best per blank price, or send out a batch for the best quantity price. Here's a little breakdown of what it would cost you to use that bar of D2 the way you're asking, rather than buying 80CRV2 from Alpha Knife Supply (I understand D2 is not comparable to 80CRV2, but this comparison is about what it would cost to use "free" D2, and 80CRV2 is a great steel for a beginner who's sending out for HT anyway).

This assumes all shipping done by USPS flat rate, Trugrit pricing for 4 cryo'd, wrapped blanks, Bos pricing for a batch HT.

TxOJKyn.jpg


Even if you place 0 value on the bar you turn into chips, which would be wrong, as it is a fantastic piece to make file guides as stated previously, or other tools from, it's still an incredibly expensive way to start making knives.

You can get 9 bars of 80CRV2 in .148 thickness shipped to you for less than the cost of milling that D2 to size. Your heat treat per blade for sending out 20 blanks drops from $18 per to $4.25 per plus shipping.
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On Wire cut EDM ? He can get three piece from that plate ?
 
That would be the most expensive free D2 to ever be cut.

At .100" IPM it'll only take 6 hours per cut. So ignoring setup, 12 hours to cut it in 3 pieces. At $100/hr.
 
If you have access to Leaf Springs that would be a good starting point. Save that D2 and practice on the leaf springs since they can be easily Heat Treated. When you feel comfortable and can afford shipping cost get some 80CRV2 and you will have not wasted money on practicing grinding and heat treating. I have a couple Old Rudy Ruana hunting knives made in the late 1960's from Leaf Springs they are as tough as can be. Best of Luck.
 
paranoidsentry said:
To be honest I hadn't figured that out yet. From my research D2 should be heat treated in salt or a vacuum furnace to prevent scaling. I don't have access to either of those. I would probably have found a place to take/send them off for heat treatment.


So what I am getting, is that even if it weren't to expensive (I have no idea how much it would cost), I will be much better off starting with an easier steel. I had planned to do that originally, but can't find a local steel source (not for anything I wouldnuse to make a knife). And shipping to Alaska comes out to more than the cost of most steels. I can probably get my hands on some old leaf springs. I am open to suggestions.
Click to expand...
You are on the right track.
leaf or most coil springs are good if not great.just dont use any that look like they had too much use and abuse--potential cracks.
railspikes:
cat in a bagto say the least.
mostly soft or who knows what you may get in the way of quality.
seems like whatever companies order they get because i dont belive there is a standard. second: made whe? what did they use 100yrs ago?
and also,the stamping on them means zip as far as steel goes.
joe
 
I came across a 5 gallon bucket of new railroad spikes a while back, all stamped MC

I was actually able to find the exact manufacturer, and a spec sheet. I can't recall the exact numbers, but it was far from impressive. It was somewhere between 1018 and 4140...

The blacksmith I learned from made some spike knives that performed very well, but he split them in half and laminated in a piece of W1 for the cutting edge...
 
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