What To Make of D.C. Knife Law?

[Confederate]

The law on knives seems poorly written:

District of Columbia - § 22-4504.

(a) No person shall within the District of Columbia possess any machine gun, sawed-off shotgun, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, sand club, sandbag, switchblade knife....

(b) No person shall within the District of Columbia possess, with intent to use unlawfully against another, an imitation pistol, or a dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or knife with a blade longer than 3 inches, or other dangerous weapon.

(c) Whoever violates this section shall be punished as provided....

The law seems to say that no one in D.C. shall possess a "knife with a blade longer than 3 inches, or other dangerous weapon" with the "intent to use unlawfully against another." In other words, I don't see where it prevents someone from having a 4- or 5-inch blade providing that person have no "intent" to "unlawfully" use said knife/blade against another.

If I were subject to a random search in D.C., would I be in trouble for carrying my Cold Steel 5-inch Voyager, providing I didn't have an intent to use it unlawfully against another?

The law seems to suggest that these things may be used against another in a lawful (defense) situation.

Am I wrong?

 

[joe-bob]

It would seem that you could carry any knife, but...they will probably come back with, "Any knife longer than 3.00000" is 'proof' of unlawful intent." ...or I'll eat my hat

 

[Confederate]

If a guy has a clean record free of criminal violence, holds a respectable job, has never been arrested and is, according to friends, a knife enthusiast, I think a jury would be hard pressed to find "unlawful intent." The way the law reads, I see no limitation on knife size just as I see no restrictions on the ownership of an "imitation pistol." It's possession with the "intent" that seems to be restricted.

 

[orthogonal1]

"jury" - now there is a word that should send shivers down one's back.

Hire a lawyer($), be convicted by a judge ($$), appeal to jury ($$$), hire witnesses, etc. ($$$$) and be judged by what the prosecutor gets in the jury (remember that an education higher than high school is not an asset for jury duty).

BTW - knife confiscation is significantly more common than prosecution.

 

[mp510]

Kind v. United States

seems to imply that the blade length alone could qualify a knife under DC law as being a prohibited weapon.

From the appellate ruling:

District of Columbia Court of Appeals.
Larry KIND, Appellant,
v.
UNITED STATES, Appellee.

No. 84-1717.

Argued Jan. 24, 1986.
Decided July 30, 1987.


Defendant was convicted in the Superior Court, Frank E. Schwelb, J., of possession of prohibited weapon with intent to use it unlawfully against another person and defendant appealed. The Court of Appeals held that court's failure to instruct jury that knife had to have blade longer than three inches to qualify as prohibited weapon constituted reversible error.

...

A knife with a blade shorter than three inches arguably could qualify under the catch-all provision “other dangerous weapon”, but the government did not present its case on that theory. Furthermore, the trial court gave no instructions concerning a “dangerous weapon,” but rather simply stated that all the government need show was first “the defendant possessed a knife, and second, at the time he possessed the knife he had the specific intent to use it unlawfully against any other-against another person.” Defendant made no objection to this charge. See Super.Ct.Crim.R. 30.
FN3. M.A.P. v. Ryan, 285 A.2d 310 (D.C.1971).
FN4. See also United States v. Gaither, 142 U.S.App.D.C. 234, 236, 440 F.2d 262, 264 (1971); Jackson v. United States, 121 U.S.App.D.C. 160, 348 F.2d 772 (1965).
FN5. The government introduced into evidence a knife recovered after Kind's arrest from the back floorboard of the car in which the assault took place. Testimony of Kind at the trial can be read to indicate his acknowledgment that that was the knife involved in the incident. (Kind's defense was that the woman involved in the incident was the one who originally had the knife and that he was struggling to remove the knife from her.) The knife is in the record on appeal and in fact has a blade in excess of three inches. However, under our case law, it was for the jury to determine whether this knife was in fact the knife possessed by Kind and whether it met the statutory requirement.

It is important to note that Kind was also charged with and convicted of assault and property damage charges.

The most damning part of the Kind ruling is the way the first paragraph was worded (see my highlighted portion).

 

[jujigatame]

You may not be wrong, but getting an officer of prosecutor to think you're right is another matter entirely. If you were stopped and had that CS model on you, I imagine they'll ask why you're carrying it. In other words, what is your lawful intent for having this knife? Given how vehemently anti-gun D.C. has been I'm inclined to think the amount of tolerance they have for a 5" knife is also going to be small. If you were in some situation where there was an obvious and immediate need to use the knife, that's one thing. Otherwise, I wouldn't be crazy about pinning my chances on quoting the letter of the law. I hate the fact that I even have to say that last sentence barf but that's how it is these days.

 

[TOM1960]

Expect to be arrested for carrying a concealed weapon if an LEO performs a search or takes notice of the tell-tale pocket clip. Police tend to make the arrest first in order to cover their hineys and let the courts sort the matter out later. You will need bail money to get out of jail, a retainer for a defense attorney and you will have to take either vacation time or unpaid days off from work in order to accommodate court appearances. This could easily run you into the thousands of dollars, even if you ultimately win. Another risk is the loss of employment if your name appears in the newspapers and one of your co-workers tips off the boss. The police don't care. In fact,the officer that arrests you will most likely be on overtime and making big bucks when he or she testifies against you in court. Ultimately, only you can decide if it is worth taking the risk. That said, I carry a Cold Steel "Voyager" myself. I chose the 4", plain edge clip point model because it is easier to conceal than the 5" or 6" versions. In order to minimize the chances of an encounter with a LEO, do yourself a favor and remove the pocket clip. Deep concealment should be your primary concern. Also, avoid any place where there are metal detectors (in DC, many if not most public buildings have them) and any restaurants or clubs that perform pat-downs for weapons. Above all, keep a very low profile!

 

[Confederate]

Thanks for your inputs! One thing about carrying a pristine knife is that the cops might rather add it to their personal collection than to do paperwork for an arrest. Still, things could go horribly wrong.

I never use the clip on my knife; it fits nicely in my pocket. Also, I'm almost always with my wife and am fairly well dressed. For several years I carried an illegal handgun in D.C. (until they made the penalties so draconian), and the last time I did so, I used it to dissuade a group of D.C. youth from beating me to a pulp and raping my date in an underground garage. I only had five cartridges in my gun, but they were Glasers. Even though there were seven of them, I guess none wanted to be the first to be shot!

My primary remedy was to just stay out of D.C. Now in Maryland, I carry whatever knife I want since there's no restriction, and many times it is a 4-inch serrated Voyager. It's a nice size and carries very well. In some cases in D.C., I carry a 4-inch disposable knife. That way, if confronted with a metal detector, I can stuff the knife under a bush or stick it in a tree somewhere where I can retrieve it later.

Discretion is the best way. I've never been randomly searched and the last time I was patted down was when I was taking photos of the president laying the wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier—and then I knew not to take anything sharp or dangerous. But then, when you've got all those guys with guns and badges, the last thing one needs is a weapon.