what type of steel does victorinox use on their sak's?

O

oneformula

Joined
Nov 17, 2007
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i have many over the years, and curious how it compares to, say ats-34 or 154 CM according to the experts here
 
It's more like (or may actually be) 420 series.

Not in the same class as those 2 steels for edge retention and such, but there sure are an awful of SAK's out there that have been going strong for decades and cutting just fine!
 
The Last Confederate told you true.
Inox is on the order of 420HC but with a lesser heat treat than Buck uses, so it runs a bit softer than Buck blades.

Compared to ATS34 or 154CM? Inox is not very close in holding an edge. Sharpens up a lot easier though. I'd guess that the INOX is more rust resistant as well.
 
It is rather soft, but for something that sells in the millions every year rust resistance and ease of sharpening are important.
Edge holding won't be great, but should be much better than your average 420.
 
Inox is a french abreviation for stainless, nothing else. Really does not disclose any info about the grade whatsoever.

However V-nox uses MA3 steel, its rough compsition is:
0.35% C 14% Cr 1% Mo

HRC 56 is absolute maximum hardness I'd say. I would guess average is about 55.

I agree that is better than 420, but not much.
 
See thats funny, the Inox listed on that link has totally different numbers than what you have stated. And I have seen a copy of a letter from Victorinox (scanned snail mail, silly me I didn't save that image but then I thought I would never need it) that has the numbers from the site listed.

The numbers from the site are
0.52% Carbon, 0.45% Manganese, 15% Chromium, 0.5% Molybdenum, 0.6% Silicon
56 HRC
 
Shecky - great link, all you have to do is scroll down to read the compositions. I looks like most others are higher carbon and less stain resistant.

I like the use of Inox in SAK's, with the thin blades it sharpens readily, and I don't use them as hard as a CRKT M1-13 or SnG, so the steel is just fine for me. SAK's dont stand up to hard use anyway. My Rucksack is a great field knife, but I don't want a blade that is three times as hard to sharpen (try getting a quick edge on Bos - treated S30V, ha!)

No doubt it was chosen for it's blanking and rolling abilities forming blades and tools, not as the end all be all. It's a good compromise - SAKs have kept their market position regardless of the imports for decades.
 
That site is run by Cliff Stamp. He's notorious on these forums and recently banned. He states opinions as fact and being a scientist, he's real good at twisting both the truth and fiction. He's wrong on INOX, that means stainless, not a steel type (INOX = not oxidizable = stainless). Some of his references for steel composition have been shown wrong in the past. One of his references asked this forum for the composition of VG10 which they then published on their site and is now referenced by Cliff.

So long story short, what Cliff says may be true, but as they say in the military, Don't trust...Verify.
 
brownshoe said:
That site is run by Cliff Stamp. He's notorious on these forums and recently banned. He states opinions as fact and being a scientist, he's real good at twisting both the truth and fiction. He's wrong on INOX, that means stainless, not a steel type (INOX = not oxidizable = stainless). Some of his references for steel composition have been shown wrong in the past. One of his references asked this forum for the composition of VG10 which they then published on their site and is now referenced by Cliff.

So long story short, what Cliff says may be true, but as they say in the military, Don't trust...Verify.
Click to expand...

Brownshoe, I remember the steel composition of SAKs from the Victorinox site - it is really 0.52 % C. Roughly 420HC. But it was a French steel from Aciéries de Bonpertuis.

Best regards,


Franco
 
brownshoe said:
That site is run by Cliff Stamp. He's notorious on these forums and recently banned. He states opinions as fact and being a scientist, he's real good at twisting both the truth and fiction. He's wrong on INOX, that means stainless, not a steel type (INOX = not oxidizable = stainless). Some of his references for steel composition have been shown wrong in the past. One of his references asked this forum for the composition of VG10 which they then published on their site and is now referenced by Cliff.

So long story short, what Cliff says may be true, but as they say in the military, Don't trust...Verify.
Click to expand...

Can you actually refute anything on his site? You already mistook his description of Inox:

The steel used in Swiss Army Knives is referred to as INOX which in general means simply stainless steel.
Click to expand...

which clearly says the word inox simply means "stainless steel". Of course, inox can simultaneously be different from Inox, one being a description, the other a trade name.

Can you specifically cite which references on his site are wrong?
 
Franco G said:
Brownshoe, I remember the steel composition of SAKs from the Victorinox site - it is really 0.52 % C. Roughly 420HC. But it was a French steel from Aciéries de Bonpertuis.

Best regards,


Franco
Click to expand...

They use more than one type of steel, and from several suppliers. for their high-end" kitchen knives they use the grade you suggest, for the lower end kitchen knives and the pocket knifes I believe it's a the grade I mentioned above from Thyssen-Krupp in Germany or Ugine in France.

Btw: The Cliff Stamp page cracks me up, Inox=Stainless and he puts up one specific designation.

Maybe 20% of knives from Italy, France, Germany and Spain says "Inox" and Mr Knowitall does not have a clue what it means....
 
The steel is more like Sandvik 12C27Mod., which has less impurities and is finer grained than American 420 series steels, which is why it can take a much finer edge than 420. Relative to ATS34/154CM, it is much tougher and far more stain resistant, of course, but w/noticeably less edge strength and edge holding ability.

You can see an email from Victorinox posted at pizzini.at regarding their steel comp. and heat treatment for all their tools. Very illuminating, esp the attention to different heat treats for each tool. The following section on QC is good, too:

http://www.pizzini.at/info_sak_engl.htm#Steelinfo

Many, many years ago, probably late 90s either on this forum or the "OG" Knifeforums, I recall that someone w/temporary access to a hardness tester checked several Vic SAK blades and they were remarkably consistent, all falling between 55.9 and 56.2 RC if I recall correctly. It would have been interesting to have tested the other tools, too, but I'd bet the QC would have been similarly consistent.

Happy Thanksgiving, all
(Checking in between making cranberry sauce and stuffing...)
 
Just watching m&m's dance across a stage, cooking turkey, making mashed spuds, green beans with the mushroom soup and onions on top, raspberry strawberry jello, baking wheat bread, and waiting for my wonderful daughter in law to bring a salad and home made apple pie, and have a SAK in my pocket, aaaaannnnnd I'm OK with what ever steel they use. I don't care as long as it works. LET'S EAT, WATCH THE GAME, BE PATRIOTIC AND GIVE THANKS.
 
xbxb said:
have a SAK in my pocket, aaaaannnnnd BE PATRIOTIC
Click to expand...

2 birds with 1 stone! :thumbup:

Super-Tinker-Flag-Apple.jpg


HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO EACH AND ALL HERE AT BF! :)
 
Wow, sweet knife, Confederate!

I believe the SAK steel is technically known as "Good." Good is a very special steel, in that it holds a decent edge, is very corrosion resistant and sharpens easily.
But, Victorinox knives also have a special geometry. The technical term for this geometry is known as Nice.

When the Good steel dulls, the Nice geometry allows it to still cut reasonably well.

Good steel, Nice geometry, Great price.
 
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