What would you bring?

Q

qwertyname

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Oct 11, 2000
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Ok, here's the scenario. I have a friend who is a reservist with specialist training (EOD). He hasn't been called up yet, but has been getting info from his unit commander to keep the 90+ day deployement bag packed. So, assuming for a moment that you were in his shoes, what would you take as personal blades? I am assuming (and I don't really know) that when you get called up you get equiped, but I don't really know what that kind of gear looks like either.

His choices:

SOG Sogwinder II in a horizontal sheath as a folder (it actually is the one I sold to him a few years ago)

A replica vietnam tomahawk (I don't remember the company that makes them, and he's not sure on this, but leaning towards it)

Personally I would probably lean toward either a folder or small fixed blade/neck knife - say 3" - 4" which is unobtrusive and something bigger in the 7" - 10" catagory for more general purpose.

Any "been there, done that" kind of people have suggestions/thoughts?
 
the best choices for survival tours (i've gone for 22 days maximum) is according to me:
1. And axe/tomahawk/machete, depending on situation and location
2. A large fixed blade like a Busse 9' or a Livesay RTAK
3. A smaller Fixed blade for your basic small chores
4. A folder to back up, possibly incorpotated in a multi-tool.

If I'd choose: a vietnam tomahawk or a khukri for fighting,
a livesay RTAK, a Dozier professional skinner and a D-2 SIFU, BM 710 HSS, Spyderco Military, REKAT carnivour, Al Mar SERE 2K.

When on trail, store the tomhawk on the back of your backpack, the folder and the small knife can be tucked in the backpack as they have little or none tactical use. Keep the RTAK as sideknife.

If your gonna pack minimalistic (i'd rather carry something 2 ounces heavier and have a knife extra), first thing to be eliminated is the strictly fighting thing, second thing the folder, third thing the small knifes.
I'd defenitely keep the RTAK under every circumstance.

Good replacements for the RTAK : Becker brute, busse basic 9', a good bowie, a Greco la duena, A Gerber BMF (I used one once and it worked uit good).

I'd also recommend a carbon steel with a coating, it's much comfortable then a stainless steel (which will turn out to be not-so-stainless in tropical conditions).

If the survival issue is not that critical, Some kind of multi-tool always comes in handy... I've use a leatherman supertool, a leatherman wave and several SAK's... the Green SAK Rucksack got the most use.

hope this helps a bit... most important thing to know is where you are going and how conditions are over there. The modify you knife needs to that. I always have several on standby, and pick the ones to carry at the last minute before departure. I mean.. a machete is not really a smart choice when your going to the middle east, but the best choice when you're going to central and south america.

greetz, bart.
 
I would take my REKAT Sifu, Cold Steel Recon Scout, Cold Steel Gurkha Kukri, and my Victorinox Deluxe Tinker. I think with those 4 knives, I'd be ready for just about anything.
 
When I've done field manuevers in the past some of the "brass" did not like seeing big sheath knives on the troops belts for irrelevent image problems. I guess it's okay to kill but not with certain weapons. I recommend any good 4" blade folder in a sheath and a good multi-tool. As for fixed blades, a Cold Steel SRK works pretty good for all around use and abuse and it is a lot tougher than the Marine-style fighting knife sold at the PX. The new bayonet looks very versatile so that may work even though it appears large and bulky. There are some non-magnetic knives available that your EOD buddy may like but they are very expensive.

I don't recommend any knife with a blade over 7" for the aforementioned "image problem". If you must take a huge knife don't wear it until you are deep in the field. If the REMF command sees one guy with a huge Bowie/machete on his belt they will ban all fixed blade knives on the belts, IMO. Therefore it is wise to bring a large folder just in case.

I've never taken a tomahawk to the field but it seems like a good idea in certain areas. If you are going into jungle country, Ontario makes a sweet, 10" blade, survival machete. Just my two-bits.
 
Some interesting responses ...

I hadn't really thought about the tool aspect as noted by Bart and Glockman and I really hadn't expected an "image" problem in the military in the field. I could understand if the military didn't want you carrying something that would meet some minimum spec, but to say that you can't carry something because it is too "big"? Especially in the field, that seems crazy.

Bart and 95Bravo - when you were sent someplace, what gear where you provided by your unit? Any knife at all other than a bayonet? I am
under the impression that when/if he deploys his unit will provide any special purpose EOD gear, but I don't really know what else you get.

From what he has heard so far, jungle doesn't seem to be one of the immediate options. Most of the places sound pretty dry.

While I've thrown a tomahawk or two, I've never really practiced with one as a weapon, thinking more as a lighter weight hatchet with a long handle for more leverage and speed.

I find it interesting that both Bart and Glock came up with 4 knives, sort of a chopper, fighter, folder, fixit kit. I'll have to encourage him to pick up a couple of more blades ...

Thanks,

Qwerty
 
I don't know what the deal is with big blades, and axes. This ain't a camping trip they're going on.
I wish I'd had these:
Busse Basic 5
Benchmade 710
Leatherman Wave
 
The survival trips i did were droppings in central massif of France in summer and winter. This proves to be quit versatile, as in the winter it's friggin' cold and soaking wet, and in the summer as dry as a saltbed and hotter then hell.

Off course, I never incorporated any fighting, so i never packed a tomahawk, but insted a small camp axe made by fiskars (light and very efficient).

I'm not military at all, but these trips were often accompanied by military personell ( best the ever did right was bringing the beer along :D ). I even had the pleasure to do such a trip with some dudes from the same unit Fred Perrin trained with.. I can tell they are crazy.

One knife always has it's downsides, and you'll need another knife to back up for that. I once saw a dude with a really nice one, a large 5160 forged busse-like knife, and a 52100 smaller knife, both in a duo-kydex sheath, with a sharpener and a magnesium firestarter. i consider such a duo a minimal for survival trips, no matter which circumstance. The knives issued to military in Europe are jokes. take the glock miliraty knife..way too thick grind, cuts like **** but has one nice feature: bottleopener ! (I wonder which get's used more.. the knife or the bottleopener :D ).

I dunno what they issue in the USA, or if there are any restrictions.

My experience with miliraty trips/missions like Desert storm is that you'll have more use from a good pair of shoes/socks and a flashlight and that you'll only use the knife to oil it in to prevent rusting.

You don't need a knife for food preparation or hunting.
You won't need a knife for fighting close combat.
You don't need a knife to build a shelter.

For all those things they carry more specialized tools, like a cook and cans, bombs and guns and tents and shovels.

Then what do you need the knife for? PLAYING and showing off.
If you really would need the knife for those things, the combo's suggested would be my first choice. Altough i'd leave the tomahawk at home if I had a shovel like the spetsnaz special forces shovel.

The most use you'll have from a multitool like a leatherman (the diamond file eliminates the need for a sharpener too) or a SAK.

greetz, bart.
 
I served six years in the Army and I can't imagine anyone carrying a tomahawk or other huge (over 6") blade, except machetes in the jungle, and some engineers who carried full size axes.
And if he will be driving a Hummer, it comes with a Pioneer kit that includes an ax, shovel, and pick.

My advice is a good multi-tool (my personal preference is the Gerber Pro-Scout or the Victorinox Locksmith) and a Spyderco Endura or Rescue.

If he's a "Master Blaster" (EOD) then he probably will never even see the enemy face-to-face in combat. The EOD guys I have worked with are very well trained and are highly professional. The Army will not throw him on the front to fight the enemy with a tomahawk (he's too hard to replace). That's what 11B's are for!

But if he's a Combat Engineer and going to Sapper school...that's a different story altogether.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
When I was in, 6 inches was about the limit without raising eybrows. 'Course, I was in the Signal Corps, not combat arms. I would take a pocket knife, a multitool, and a 5-6 inch fixed blade knife. The Middle East might be kinda sandy, so any folding knife may get grit in the pivots. I hate when that happens.

Steve
 
Unless you are 11B (Infantry) or another combat arms specialty the U.S. military usually does not issue you any combat knives or bayonets. You are more likely to get struck by lightning or get eaten by sharks than to engage in hand to hand combat if you are a REMF (Rear-Echelon-Mother-F#@$%r) soldier! The technician types will sometimes get issued a decent multi-tool and some of the maritime personnel may get a pocket knife with a folding marlin spike. The bayonets issued are usually quite dull anyways. Furthermore, a lot of the troops issued bayonets will usually show off and break the blades throwing and "testing them" or just hurt themselves with these things. The closest cutting tool issued to most troops is the small folding shovel (entrenching tool). A handy knife I've used in the past was a 3" blade, serrated edge POS folder that could cut rope and tough fabric, spread peanut butter and jam, strip wires, and whittle an occasional twig. I eventually lost it in the field but I didn't care since it was so cheap. I've used Gerber Multi-pliers when working with commo gear or any machinery and they are real handy.

The other guys are right, most of the time a large sheath knife is never needed since there are many other tools on hand that do a better job. I remember the guys with huge knives on their belts never really used them much at all except for "showing off". Although that does have some merit I still couldn't justify carrying a huge knife for personal use. Furthermore they were real paranoid about using these big knives for anything since it may "ruin the edge"! I guess a huge knife is good for extreme survival situations when no other tools are available but they are just too heavy and bulky to "lug around" all day on your web gear. Throw in a kydex sheath with a huge knife and you may as well strap on a piece of plywood with a 2X4! I could be wrong but these have been my experiences and observations.

FYI: If engaging and surviving hand to hand combat is a realistic concern a snub-nosed, .38 Special, alloy-frame revolver is smaller and lighter than a huge bowie. ;)
 
Hey, I've got some definite REMF experience here!

Went to Desert Shield/Storm as an Army MP. Our job was "Escort Guard" (EPW transport), but we first did port security at Dammam, and then one day I went on road patrol with another unit's MPs. Mostly we then did prisoner transport.

I took my Buck Scoutlite and my Gerber Mk. II. I was afraid the Scoutlite would get messed up and not lock with all the sand, but my experience in 1989 at a Florida beach was not applicable. If you go in the surf, yes, the folders will get jammed with swirling sand, but not in the dry desert areas. My Mk.II was a waste, although I did cut some commo wire with it. Dulled the heck out of it, too!

In hindsight, I'd go with a good medium size/moderate cost lockblade like my Endura or Native. This is the knife that would get used the most. From what I have now, I'd take either my Buck Nighthawk or Camillus A.F. Survival knife in a kydex rig to attach to my LBE (I think they're wearing that dam vest thingy now, though). Actually, these two might be too large for my taste. If I bought a new one, maybe a Seal Pup (or the Livesay U.S. Marshall I have on order). If you hump alot you don't want to get weighed down. Believe me, the LBE, canteen, ammo pouches, protective mask, MOPP gear bag, etc. will be quite enough weight!

Since alot of other guys in my unit had multitools, I could always borrow one!:)

One more thing: Take a box or two of 5.56 (and one of 9mm, if you have a pistol). When we arrived in country, we didn't get our ammo for THREE WEEKS! All the while being told of the local "terrorist threat." I vowed if I ever went to another war, I'd take my own ammo to tide me over! Of course, maybe I'll get a call soon...

Karl
 
The current military guys have it pretty much figured out. When I was in non combat field training situations in the 70's the cats meow by us airborne guys was considered the buck 110 in a sheath with silver wings stuck on the flap. Nobody toted a fixed blade at all during training. Also the Military issued a small slip joint folder called a demo knife that was ok and sought after. If it was today, I would take a high quality folder, maybe a couple stowed in personal gear in case I lost one and either a Livesay Air Assault (5.5 inch blade) or Chris Reeves Shadow IV (5.5 inch blade) and a good multi-tool. The Vietnam Tomahawk made by ATC would be a temptation to have along depending on the situation. Its light as heck, and great for breaking into stuff and punching holes and cutting tough plastic, thin metal etc. It would puncture a fuel tank or plastic drum easy. Opening ammo crates etc. Everything but the folder would have to kept under wraps until out in the sticks. Whoever said a J-frame revolver, has a good idea, or a glock 26 9mm, with a couple mags. But unless your some special ops guy, personal firearms are getting left back home in the arms room locked up until you get back. Whatever you take needs to be light and have a good spot to ride on your gear thats out of the way, but handy.
 
I carried out joint missions with some of these guys in 1966 to 1968. The team that I worked with "renderde safe" booby traps,etc. in viet nam. The guy I knew would go check out the device in question and if he didn't know exactly what type of booby trap it was, he would pull back about a mile , radio coordinates to the navy ships a send in 2 or 3 BIG SHELLS and blow the smitherenes out of it. Then he would go back and check it out and radio back to the troops that all was clear. He spent a lot of tax dollars at the rate of one or two thousand per shell but he came back in one piece. I don't I ever remember seeing him carry a knife. Some of the other EOD guys that tried to "render safe" booby traps they were unfamiliar with never made it back. At any rate an EOD guy is a very sharp , no mistake type of guy. They don't graduate from EOD school ( 6 months) without making a 100 ( that's an A+++++) like NOOOO Mistakes or they get recycled back thru til they get everything right the 1st time. They can't afford to make mistakes in their line of work. I hope this EOD guy has enough sense to call in the artillery if he comes across unfalmilar devices rigged up by some of these 3rd world thugs. The infantry tended to take good care of these EOD guys since there were not a whole lot of them around to solve some of these sticky little problems that you run into from time to time.
 
I've had the chance to talk to the friend of mine some more, and it sounds like things are heating up. Some interesting thoughts regarding possible situations in this thread so far.

One note to verify is that he also voiced the desire to take along a personal firearm, but he has been told that is pretty much verboten, but he will be issued an M9 pistol and one of the M16 varients. To JW, he actually had alot of training regarding blowing up stuff he couldn't figure out how to diffuse. (and blow up stuff he did know how to diffuse but that was dangerous to do so) Despite starting out as a Marine he is pretty attached to the idea of coming home with all of his limbs in order.

I think at this point he is leaning toward the tomahawk more as a lightweight chopping tool than a last ditch weapon. While I don't know the brand, it is one of the versions with the spike on the back which he uses as a pick pretty often.

One thing I am curious about - if you are in the business of trying to disarm explosives, it would seem like you would need to go to where they are. Where ever they are seems like someplace where there is something people want to blow up. If people want to blow it up that would strike me as a potential combat region - n'est pas? I mean I definatly understand the coming in after the first wave of infantry to clear an area to allow heavier artillery to get through, but how rear echelon does something like EOD get?

Incidently, I'm not sure he really knows the answer to this one yet either as he just recently finished school. He had a different profession in the Gulf.
 
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