What you absolutely need first (for straight razoring)?

A.L.

A.L.

Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
8,118
Hi there!

I've been long time beard grower, and I can't remember when I've shaven completely but I just did so yesterday. I felt sick first, and now just weird.. heh, I guess it just needs some time to get used to it.

Anyway, if I feel like sticking with this look, I was thinking that I eventually want to go to straight razor. Makes sense being knife guy right?

So, I have been thinking of getting böker (german made) razor since they are easily available here.
With the razor, I'm going to need stone, strop and some compound.

What grit stones do you guys use for sharpening the razor, and what kind of compound would you recommend? My regular knives sharpening has mostly been with sandpapers (convex) and diamond/ceramic (for toothy edge).

Another thing, if ever need to do so, what happens if I use razor with regular shaving foam? Disaster, poor performance or ok substitute?

I am sure I am missing something right now but I hope you can help me with some of these.. THANKS!
 
First off, canned goo usually doesn't do good with any kind of razor. Pick yourself up a Van der Hagen Deluxe shaving kit from Target. The one with soap, brush and bowl. It will get you started with making a decent lather for just a few bucks. Try that with your current shaving gear.

Get a known shave ready razor from a reputable dealer or honemeister. Larry at www.wippeddog.com sells vintage shave ready razors for cheap. Get a cheap one to learn to strop rather than ruining your edge on a new razor. Honing a straight is completely different than knife sharpening, lots of technique not just high grit stones.

Bare minimum: shave ready razor, strop, and quality lather usually from soap/cream and a brush. Stropping maintenance can go a long ways, not requiring you to hone the razor very often, especially if you have a loaded strop. Check out whipped dog for the beginners gear then go to youtube and search for videos by Mantic59.

It becomes a fun and relaxing hobby once you get the hang of it.


-Xander
 
Thanks for the input!

fast14riot said:
Honing a straight is completely different than knife sharpening, lots of technique not just high grit stones.

Bare minimum: shave ready razor, strop, and quality lather usually from soap/cream and a brush. Stropping maintenance can go a long ways, not requiring you to hone the razor very often, especially if you have a loaded strop.
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I have watched bunch of tutorials, and amateur impression was that sharpening razor (stonewise) would be actually easier than with regular knife, though more care and time would be required. What is it exactly that makes it more difficult?

What grits do you usually use if you feel like strop isn't strong anymore? Is there kinds of stones (besides cheap ones) that you should absolutely avoid with razors?
 
If you can sharpen a knife well, you can hone a razor to give a good shave. If your current sharpening stones go up to 1000 grit (hard Arkansas) level, you'll need 1-2 stones that takes it higher. Spyderco fine and ultra fine which you can do yourself on one side of the same stone lap to finer. Try to get it as near to 2000 grit, then strop, not on compound, just plain leather and on to newspaper. This level will give a good shave. Its not that difficult. DM
 
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David Martin said:
If you can sharpen a knife well, you can hone a razor to give a good shave. If your current sharpening stones go up to 1000 grit (hard Arkansas) level, you'll need 1-2 stones that takes it higher. Spyderco fine and ultra fine which you can do yourself on one side of the same stone lap to finer. Try to get it as near to 2000 grit, then strop, not on compound, just plain leather and on to newspaper. This level will give a good shave. Its not that difficult. DM
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Wow, you must have skin like iron to shave off a stropped 2K edge! I don't ever stop lower than 8K and normally go to 12K then loaded balsa strop, then leather/newspapser. I use films, which are cheaper than buying the various stones and learning to use them.

Normally the biggest difference between knife sharpening and razor honing I the amount of pressure and attention to detail. Very little pressure is needed, even when setting the initial bevel. Also under normal circumstances you don't develop a burr on the edge.

When I'm restoring a razor, setting an edge from scratch, I set my bevels with 1K, and follow up with 2K. These are edge leading strokes. I check under magnification to make sure I am gettin all the way to the apex. Then I go to 4K edge trailing for 50-75 laps. Then 6K for 75-100 laps, also edge trailing. I then move to 12K for 75-100 laps. I use less and less pressure on each grit as I progress. Then I go to a CrO2 loaded balsa strop for 50 laps, then either leather or newsprint for 100 laps with no pressure. Maintain on plain leather with 50 laps before and after each shave. Some people do 25 laps on untreated linen then leather for 50 laps before and just 25-50 laps on leather after.

If your looking to buy just a few stones, get a Norton 4K/8K combo and a DMT 220 to lap the Norton flat. Some people can shave right from the 8K edge, but most people go to a loaded strop then plain strop.


-Xander
 
Get a good quality badger brush and a good soap or cream. Learn to make a good lather. Don't waste money on a cheap brush or soaps. The good ones will give you a much better shave. Read badgerandblade.com for recommendations. I got an Edwin Jagger best badger brush for $40. I use honeybee sue soaps that cost about $3 per puck and they last a long time.
 
Oh and if you use canned goo you might tear your face to pieces. The razor will not like it and won't glide like it should. I learned my lesson when I gave myself a nasty cut because the goo didn't behave like a good lather. it made the razor dig in, and that was with a double edged safety razor. I imagine with a straight it would be worse.
 
Those are waterstones and their grits are configured differently. The ceramic stone I speak of gets to the 2 micron range of your 6000 grit stated waterstone... Some stropping will get it finer. My Belgium Yellow Coticule stone is finer at 1 micron like your 8000 grit stated waterstone. Perhaps some finer, (I'm not inflating). So, we are talking about the same apples here... That much stropping will convex the edge.
Yes, read a lot in BadgerandBlade Forum as those gentlemen Rave about the stones I mention. DM
 
David Martin said:
Those are waterstones and their grits are configured differently. The ceramic stone I speak of gets to the 2 micron range of your 6000 grit stated waterstone... Some stropping will get it finer. My Belgium Yellow Coticule stone is finer at 1 micron like your 8000 grit stated waterstone. Perhaps some finer, (I'm not inflating). So, we are talking about the same apples here... That much stropping will convex the edge.
Yes, read a lot in BadgerandBlade Forum as those gentlemen Rave about the stones I mention. DM
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Good point, I thought something was off a bit. Yes waterstones are rated differently than ANSI graded stones and films. So we were talking about (roughly) the same progression.

Either films like I use, or stones like DM uses will get you a very good edge. The difference can be (and is in some circles) argued to death! Only thing that matters is the end result, which is how does it shave. Finishing honing at about 1 micron grit and stropping works vry well.

As I stated for my progression above, that is for starting an edge from scratch on a restored razor with no edge at all. The steel dictates if I need more or less, but those figures are pretty average. My normal is just 25-50 laps on leather for maintenance.

-Xander
 
And that is why honing a razor is more difficult than sharpening a knife! ;) Basicly you are looking for a perfect, smooth, pretty much mirror polished edge. I good pocket microscope or loupe in the 60-100x range helps to visualize things. I personally prefer to take my edge as far as I can on stones, then strop. Some guys prefer to use compounds of several grits to get what they are looking for. You'll find what works for you. Straightrazorplace.com has lots of info about honing if you want to go that route, or the addresses of some folks who hone professionally, if you find that route works better.

But to get to the real question at hand. What do you need first? Brush and soap, or cream. No matter what you end up shaving with, straight, shavette, DE, or cartridge, brush lather is much better then canned goop. Better for your skin, wallet (unless you start collecting them too!) and better for the environment. Start with that now, learn how to make good lather, and you'll be well on your way once you get the straight razor figured out. There is no shame in taking it slow with the straight for a while, getting used to it on the easy parts, and finishing up with your usual method.

Just be aware that when you buy a new razor they are not shave ready, unless the dealer you are buying it from has made it so. They are not shipped finished from factory.
 
Thanks a lot again guys. Seems that I have to go with the cheapo way for while and start collecting all the necessary stuff bit by bit. :)
 
A.L., Another thought, you being out of country, is you might can get your hands on a Frantz Swaty razor hone. They are not expensive here in the U.S., perhaps 30$ depending on condition. They compare close to the Spyderco ultra-fine ceramic stone as they are a ceramic. It may require some laping but could get you down to 2u, then with some stropping your razor would be shave ready. I've read of many guys who use this combination. Good luck, DM
 
A.L. said:
Hi there!

I've been long time beard grower, and I can't remember when I've shaven completely but I just did so yesterday. I felt sick first, and now just weird.. heh, I guess it just needs some time to get used to it.

Anyway, if I feel like sticking with this look, I was thinking that I eventually want to go to straight razor. Makes sense being knife guy right?

So, I have been thinking of getting böker (german made) razor since they are easily available here.
With the razor, I'm going to need stone, strop and some compound.

What grit stones do you guys use for sharpening the razor, and what kind of compound would you recommend? My regular knives sharpening has mostly been with sandpapers (convex) and diamond/ceramic (for toothy edge).

Another thing, if ever need to do so, what happens if I use razor with regular shaving foam? Disaster, poor performance or ok substitute?

I am sure I am missing something right now but I hope you can help me with some of these.. THANKS!
Click to expand...

I picked up this Boker a few weeks back.

photobucket-23575-1348284288083_zpsd90b816b.jpg


For honing I picked up a Norton 4k/8k and a Fromm Strop. I haven't used any compounds with the strop to date. If the razor you buy doesn't state it's shave ready you will need to hone it or send it off. Boker didn't state that it was hone ready so I went to work on it and I'm satisfied with the edge currently.

norton-4-8-k.jpg


irs827.jpg


You will need a good badger hair brush and some good shave cream or soap. I'm using C.O. Bigelows shave cream which can be picked up at Bath and Body works in town or Amazon.

images


co-bigelow-premium-shave-cream.jpg


You will also need an old mug to work up the lather with. Beard prep is really important, you want the fur wet and soft. Beard reduction is the key, you won't get it all off in one swipe it takes a few passes going with and against and across the grain. It takes me about 45 minutes to get the job done. I have a tough time with the neck area as the fur grows perpendicular to my neck and it's hard to get the razor laid in correctly. I'm still quite new at this but I'm getting better. Hope that helps.
 
Contrary to what others have suggested you don't NEED a badger brush. Omega brand boar bristle brushes are actually of quite nice quality. I use one of their "pro" models with a red handle as my go-to brush in spite of owning a few nice badgers (which I still bust out when shaving for the enjoyment of it.)
 
I started straight shaving recently. I started with a Simpson best badger PJ2. However, last week I stopped by the local pharmacy and noticed that they had a cheap Van Der Hagen boar brush. It only cost 8 bucks (the Simpson was roughly $100). Having started with "the good stuff," I wanted to try this cheap brush out.

I can definitely notice a big difference between the badger brush and the boar brush, but the boar brush works just fine. The quality and finish are pretty bad, but it is a functional brush nonetheless.

I would definitely recommend it to anyone as an effective and inexpensive option.

PS- I also bought some William's soap with the boar brush (one puck only cost a few bucks). I have a big ceramic cereal bowl that I used to whip the lather up, and the boar brush and this soap worked great together.
 
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The Government said:
I started straight shaving recently. I started with a Simpson best badger PJ2. However, last week I stopped by the local pharmacy and noticed that they had a cheap Van Der Hagen boar brush. It only cost 8 bucks (the Simpson was roughly $100). Having started with "the good stuff," I wanted to try this cheap brush out.

I can definitely notice a big difference between the badger brush and the boar brush, but the boar brush works just fine. The quality and finish are pretty bad, but it is a functional brush nonetheless.

I would definitely recommend it to anyone as an effective and inexpensive option.

PS- I also bought some William's soap with the boar brush (one puck only cost a few bucks). I have a big ceramic cereal bowl that I used to whip the lather up, and the boar brush and this soap worked great together.
Click to expand...

Seriously--for a boar brush it's pretty tough to top the Omega "Pro". Very good quality for not a lot of money. The longer bristles make it feel relatively soft on the face while still being stiff enough to rapidly load and lather.
 
42, I have the brush you mention and it is a good brush. I don't think I need one of better quality. DM
 
It's my favorite, in fact! And this in spite of it being so inexpensive. I spent good money on my badgers and yet I use them much less.
 
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