what you want in a survival knife.

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bronyblacksmith

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I want to know what you want in a survival knife
how big? I have found that for setting up shelter and making fire that a large knife is better (except for feather sticks), and that a small knife is better for food prep and skinning and whittling.
would you trade cutting ability for toughness?
 
bronyblacksmith said:
would you trade cutting ability for toughness?
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If you just want ONE knife, something like the ESEE-6 is best.
It is tough and cuts very good due to the full flat grind.

It is a bit too light to be a good chopper, though.

And you don't have to trade cutting ability for toughness.
There are very tough steels out there - see the new Bark River knives in CPM3V.
They are quite thin but due to the tough steel you won't have chipping or denting if you care a bit.
And the convex edge is 4x tougher than a conventional v-edge.

I also think that bigger is better for building and making shelter. Love the trailmaster for that.
But I would not want to carve sticks for making a trap or something with it.

So I'd say go with 2 knives. I like to combine Trailmaster and Leatherneck-SF (each one in SK-5) or ESEE-3 and ESEE-6 (if chopping is not needed) for example.

ESEE Junglas and Izula are also good companions!
 
j_killa said:
And the convex edge is 4x tougher than a conventional v-edge.
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Could you let me know where you got this info?

As for survival knives I think a two blade system is best. I'd opt for a small knife that can whittle and do every "knife" task. A mora or something similar is a good pick. With that add whatever wood processor you like best. I've used machetes, large knives, hatchets/hawks and saws. They all do the trick. I personally find saws safer, faster, and easier to carry.
 
I wonder if there is an ideal blade shape and thickness combination that can enhance the abilities of a shorter knife to perform like a longer one, and vice versa.

Having a few years behind me, my ideal "survival knife" and my Ideal "EDC" have been merging to where they would be the same knife, and the only real question is "Fixed" or "Folder"? Right now, I am leaning towards a small folding modified sheeps foot rigging knife with a fid attached.
 
Bumppo said:
I wonder if there is an ideal blade shape and thickness combination that can enhance the abilities of a shorter knife to perform like a longer one, and vice versa.

Having a few years behind me, my ideal "survival knife" and my Ideal "EDC" have been merging to where they would be the same knife, and the only real question is "Fixed" or "Folder"? Right now, I am leaning towards a small folding modified sheeps foot rigging knife with a fid attached.
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I believe a folding knife is the most ideal because that is what I have the majority of the time as EDC. I get this concept from my old man. He has always used a folder in the woods and has never had one break. Neither have I.

I am a minimalist and I want to be able to handle as many tasks as possible with one knife in a compact package in wilderness or urban survival and a multi-tool can handle both situations.
 
I'm new at survival knife theory but I have thought quite a bit about how to spend my money in this regard. I think it's going to be hard to beat a smallish knife and a folding saw ie Mora Companion and Bahco Laplander (or whatever your preferred combination is). Maybe it's because I'm too new at this but I just don't see the appeal of hauling large blades for chopping wood. At this point in my development I'd rather go with a camp hatchet than a large blade excepting a tropical jungle environment which is not local to me.

Mora, yes. Izula, sounds good. Junglas? I'm not so sure.
-StaTiK-
 
I do not think you have to trade off anything for cutting and toughness it comes down to skill and how you use that knife.
my Survival knife is the one I carry now. from camp to kithchen it cuts every thing I need cutting. the only thing is for deboning. I like a more narrow width knife for that but that is just because it like that over a wider blade. but my main knife can still be used for deboning.

If you can carry one knife you really can carry 2 knives. Even if it is piggyback sheath design, one on your belt / pack and then one in your pocket or around your neck. I mean there really is no reason to carry just one knife.
Unless you are taking a out door skill class or something like that. where they say you can only have one knife.

Just my some of my thoughts.

Bryan
 
I think something like an Esee 6, BK7 or a similar size, heavy duty custom would fit that bill really well
 
The "old saw" for a survival knife is; it is the one you have on you. If I am hiking, probably a Swiss Army Knife. If I am canoeing, I will most likely carry two knives and a small hatchet. Backpacking, a Mora sized fixed blade. But If I am in every day mode, the little rigging knife is what I have on me.
 
I've settled on a SAK Workchamp for now. The saw takes care of the wood and the blade should be large enough for non-wood chores.

A 2nd level PSK knife would be the Hiker.

I tried the mil wire saw in bow config but the SAK saw was better lol
 
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Ive used all kinds of knives with practice they can all pretty much do anything. if you can alter your style to fit the limitations of each blade.. However... and I'll probably get strung up for this... I like a small fixed blade or solid folder best... in my part of the world.. carrying a big blade is not that practical.. I;ve heard it said that a true "survival knife should be carried on you at all times" I can;t do that with an esee 6, or a hudson bay (though I love them) even in the woods these days most people don;t carry knives at all ( I don't agree with it) just a trend.
My survival knife for the past 10 months or so has been a svord peasant knife. It is easily batonable. secure when gripped in the open position, good steel, foldable, and easily stowed in a cargo or jacket pocket.. the action can be tightend to preference with simple tools, it can also be disassembled in seconds for easy cleaning with simple tools. If the handle breaks the extended tang makes a more than viable fixed blade, and it does not raise too may eyebrows when opening a box or coring an apple in regular life.. but can handle most bush tasks with ease..
the fact that the blade does not lock with a "mechanism" frees it from classification as a gravity knife (at least in my area)
However it is not without its drawbacks
the point stinks... (virtually not there)
a micarta or g-10 handle would be sweet
if the tang end was flattened in stead of round it could be used for light prying or gouging instead of just holding a lanyard
if the spine of the tang was edged enough it could be used to scrape tinder or a ferro, or to strike a natural flint
and though I love a flat grind, a scandi version would be sweet.
Now these are all things I could do myself, if I had the time or inclination but It would be awesome to see a version 2.0
add that all up it would be a heck of a pocketable powerhouse.
 
There is a lot of romance behind the term "survival knife" much like there is behind "bushcraft knife". All the romance and BS aside these two knives are very similar, but I digress. To me an ideal size is something that I am likely to have with me on dayhikes, canoeing trips, backpacking trips, exploring, etc. This is because if I was going to get lost in the wood for days those are the activities I would probably be doing at the time. During those activities I carry a medium size knife, currently one with a 5" blade (I was carrying an Esee-4 but I upgraded to the longer, thicker, lighter Fallkniven S1). I would generally consider a hard use but portable survival/outdoor knife to have a full tang, comfortable handles, and a blade from 4.5-6.5 inches (3/16-1/5" thick) with a sheath that is comfortable and has good retention. That being said I sometimes swing to carrying a longer knife like a 711, depending on how I am feeling at the time. For me at least during day hikes I dont like the weird looks people throw at me when they see I have a huge knife. I see people who are lead to believe that they need a huge knife! I understand it minimizes work and all that but the likelihood that you are going to be lost during a day hike and need to baton through three cords of woods are is very slim. I think that the size of your knife should relate to the likelihood that you will need the huge knife. So that means day hikes a small-medium (4-6") knife is good and maybe for backpacking (miles out in the middle of nowhere not many people to be heard of) a larger knife is preferable (5-7"). That's my philosophy and thinking, I am still young and that is likely to change but I think a good many people share IMO.

Good Survival/Bushcraft ("Bushcraft" referring to the function not the romanticized/elitist BS) Knives to consider:
Fallkniven F1, S1, A1
Full Sized Kabar, MK1
Esee 4, LS, 6 (I wouldn't consider the 5 if you want something that can actually cut)
Buck Punk
SYKCO 511, 711
Swamp Rat RMD, Rodent 4, 6
Becker Tweeners, BK-7, New BK-10, MK-2
Bark River Aurora, Bravo 1, Bravo 1.5
Cold Steel Recon Scout
Ontario RD-6
Sog Seal Pup Elite
Sog Tech Bowie
Sog Force (Plain Edge)
Blind Horse offerings
Survive Knives offerings
Koster MUCK (That thing is so sexy, probably my dread knife) and other Koster offerings

I do not have or have handled (about half) all of these knives but the reputation of their respective companies and numerous online reviews lead to believe they would serve you well. I would not hesitate to use and abuse any knives on said list.

If you want something that will never fail you I would get an Esee RC-6 or A1. If you want something a bit smaller go for the RC-4, S1 (have one, LOVE it), or F1.

Toughness and cutting ability are not mutually exclusive. A thicker knife ground right can cut as well as a 3/16" blade. The Fallkniven S1 and A1 are both thick but because of their grinds cut very well.
 
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I've heard all of the arguments for specialized survival knives and simply don't care. If I die in a survival situation it will be because of dehydration or injury (etc), but not because my knife should have been an inch longer.

With that said, what I want in a survival knife is what I want in a general knife for whatever outdoorsy stuff I need a knife for...

4-5" blade
4-5" handle
Decent tang (framed or full)
Comfortable grip
Modestly thick steel (1/8" is good)
Good edge geometry (full height or saber, flat or convex)
Sheath

I'm not snobby about steel, O1 is a perennial favorite but I've gotten good performance from anything decently heat treated (even 440C and some low cost Chinese stainless alloys).

I also like to pack a folding saw. That pretty much covers all the bases for me.
 
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Sticking with the OP's original question, THIS is what I want in an ideal survival knife:

5"-7" long

A high-quality stainless steel

Full tang

A comfortable, grippy handle dry or wet

Must hold an edge very well

The spine of the knife to be squared off for effective firesteel striking

A protruding tang for hammering/smashing

Lucky for me I found this knife, and Ethan_Hardy nailed it...the Fallkniven A1. As you can see from the photo, I haven't exactly taken it easy on this baby and it has surpassed all my expectations. I also have not touched up the edge and yet it will still pop hairs off my arm. Without a doubt my number one go-to blade. And this is coming from someone who was a die-hard high carbon full flat grind guy. There's a reason why the Swedish Army adopted it as their official survival knife.

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I agree with shotgun. A folder in your pocket and a 5"or 6" heavy blade like a BK-2 is a versatile and redundant combination
 
I started off trying to find the perfect single knife solution for survival. Based on the info that I read, input from two former SERE instructors, and the pervasive wisdom handed down from my father best summed up as "always bring enough gun" - I bought a six inch blade, 1095 steel, 1/4 inch thick, with a comfortable, versatile handle.

Awesome as that beast is for the larger tasks, I quickly found myself wanting a smaller blade in the arsenal as well. I tried to stay true to the minimilist ideal of a single tool, but I now agree with the many posters here who advocate the two-tool approach.

I like the BK16 and BK14 for the smaller blade as they are very tough, highly functional, and super affordable, but your options are legion. Even when I have a folder on me (nearly always), I prefer going to the small fixed blade for outdoor tasks.
 
I usually go folding pocket knife + saw, or folding pocket knife + axe. On occasion I have brought both an axe and a saw. :eek:

If you are going with others you can split the weight of full size tools among you.

Realistically I can not rely on a knife to keep me alive. Other things come into play.
 
bronyblacksmith said:
I want to know what you want in a survival knife
how big? I have found that for setting up shelter and making fire that a large knife is better (except for feather sticks), and that a small knife is better for food prep and skinning and whittling.
would you trade cutting ability for toughness?
Click to expand...

In over 30 years of backpacking and winter travel, I've never once needed to build a shelter. Not once. Add to that, the places I hike generally have enough traffic that non-emergency harvesting is just a fancy name for destroying the next guy's experience. I know this varies wildly, depending on location, but it's a pretty common occurrence in the north east to have areas shut down from any camping because of camper impact issues.

The guy from Jack Mountain Bushcraft (Tim?) defines a "survival knife" as one that can be field sharpened easily to that it can cut wood shavings, since wood shavings help with emergency fire building. I think that's really sensible. I find that an Opinel #9 (or #8) does this just fine while providing enough blade to deal with food prep and being light enough to be pocket carried so as to not interfere with pack belts.

Along with this, I'll carry a small mini tool like a Leatherman squirt. The pliers are useful for field repair (pushing a needle through heavy cloth) and the scissors are useful for bandage prep.

As for fires, I can reliably start fires (in the north east) by breaking down dead fall. I just stick to small stuff, which there is plenty of.

In the winter or colder months or on trips where I know finding wood won't be a problem and I know the kids will want a fire, I'll carry a Silky folding saw.

I will occasionally carry and use a large 5" fixed blade, but that's extra heavy fun toy territory (except in the cold wet months).
 
pinnah said:
Add to that, the places I hike generally have enough traffic that non-emergency harvesting is just a fancy name for destroying the next guy's experience.
Click to expand...

I've seen many a "survival shelter" on well used trails around here. It wouldn't tick me off so much if they were half decent. I'd rather sleep under a tree than the shelters I see.

Your point about not needing a knife for shelter building is something I agree with. When I did my SAR training we built them with no cutting tools and no cordage. Just a pair of work gloves were used. I think some have the idea that they need to make a super lean-to like they saw on tv or a raised platform bed etc. In reality you're just making a big sleeping bag. Now there can be situations where you don't have the same forest duff like you'd have in a forest but even in those cases a saw is the way to go IMO.
 
I guess I'm another vote for the "what you've got on you" camp. For me that would probably be my ESEE-3. Its tough enough to get the job done, small enough to carry all the time, discrete and not scary looking, which is important in public. If I want even more discrete and friendly, then the izula works well. I carried it on a hike a couple years ago, and when someone noticed it, their comment was, "thats a pretty small knife if we meet a bear......but you can reach your knife, and mine is in my pack somewhere......maybe the big knife wasn't the best idea...." Granted, I probably wouldn't have tried to take on a black bear with it, and there were plenty of slower, doughy people on the trail that day.
My mora2k gets they duty while fishing around salt as it is much more suited to the use/abuse it will get. And for everyday life its a Rebar and probably a SAK or somesuch.
Basically, I decide from what the day is going to be like, what to carry. Could I possibly find myself in a "survival situation" with just a multi-tool or SAK, sure, so I make it a habit to know the limits and usefulness of my tools. More as an intellectual exercise, but by building the skills with the "least" of the tools, then it means the big tools are just advantage.
So carry is my highest priority, as I've mentioned before, its one of the reasons I got rid of my SOG seal team elite (such a silly name) not a bad knife, but not easy to carry.
 
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