What's a Crow Knife For?

Joined
Mar 22, 2002
Messages
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I have a 15" Crow knife with a black horn handle. The blade is 10", the handle a smidge over 5"... alright, so the knife is a tad over 15" too. The base starts at 1 3/8" wide and at the edge beginning 1 7/16", eventually getting to 1 1/2" and even an 1 9/16" near the false edge and beginning of point. So a slight swell outward and it is appealing, though subtle. Oh, it weighs 18 ounces.

The spine near the bolster is all of 7/16", gradually narrowing until the false upper edge, about 1/4" There is a decoration scrolled where we are used to seeing the Sword of Shiva, and this goes all the way to the false upper edge too. One could sharpen that edge. I haven't tested it for hardness, probably should. I don't have a file with a known Rockwell hardness, but I do have the usual suspects of sharpening; sandpaper paddle, Norton stones, Arkansas fine stone, rods, and diamond hones. This knife arrived only sharp in sections. The area near the bolster was completely blunt. It has taken me a while to sharpen, and I'm still not done. This is a hard edge. It gives the Norton stone trouble. The diamond hones are more successfull.

Break:
The balance is nice, end heavy but not too much. The handle is very comfortable. You all know it by now and like it: The Crow, Yangdu calls it.
She will be along shortly with some pictures.

I went outside in the rain and chopped a little on my Ponderosa killer log. This log has tested other khuks, and is very hard. I don't know why, someone said Ponderosa was different than other Pine and that must be so. This particular limb is very stubborn.

To my surprise, the crow knife would chop wood. I did not strike as hard as I could, because in the middle of whacking a few good ones, I suddenly thought: 'What am I doing? This thing has a partial tang and is not pinned. How tough is it?"

And that brings me to the question about the Crow knife: it has a blade built for the wilderness and fighting. But without a full tang, how hard could it be used? I did not want to break it.

I suggest making the Crow knife a full tang; Give the Crow a Hat. ( the end cap will look like one to my eye) Sher demonstrated a full tang on a very slender horn, belled handle today in the One Only DOD. It can be done.

This blade had a few marrs, which is why I got it for review. It has a slightly non straight alignment between the bolster, blad and handle, as some of you have mentioned. (Norm, I think) HI will have to do something about this.

A new Kami made this- he who now has the Nepal flags. I like the metal work. Many of you hardcore people would appreciate the hardness of the edge.

IT makes no sense to put a stout, survival blade on a handle that can't live up to the promise, especially in the lengths offered, 13", 15" and 18".
Give the Crow a Hat- full tang, and then you'd have a real winner.

munk

Appears Yangdu may have retired this evening, so hopefully pictures tomorow. I did speak to her about the tang- looks possible. She has her own ideas about the hat.
 
im curious to know how far the tang extends. it may be possible to remove the handle, shave down the ricasso area (as most of them look to have a inch or so available) to fit back into the handle, extending the tang all the way to the pommel.

thats only if the tang extrends 3/4 or more into the handle. if its a half tang, that may not be possible.
 
I was thinking if there were a pin to the tang where the eyes are, and the ying-yang symbol covers, that would be neat.

munk
 
I don't know Munk, the scramaseaxes (or scramasaxe, seax, sax, etc.) carried by the Norse, Danes, Saxons, and Franks, were of a similar size and construction to the Crow knife, albeit a different blade design/handle shape. The majority of them had partial tangs that started wide at the blade and tapered as they went back, the point is they were partial tangs. They were used in the same "big knife" role one associates with a bowie, i.e. utilitarian survival tool and occasional weapon. That the scramaseax enjoyed a period of popularity stretching over several hundred years, is proof enough to me that the partial tang didn't present enough problems to warrant a design change. A partial tang on a khukuri might indeed develop eventual problems if used frequently for heavy chopping. However, a "big knife" like a bowie (which is what the Crow knife resembles to my eye) is used to cut, hack, slice, pierce, and occasionally. . . .chop
A full tang would, perhaps, be an improvement, but I don't believe a necessary one. Drill and pin that partial tang handle (if that hasn't already been done) and I'd bet you a dollar to a donut you've got nothing to worry about.

Sarge
 
I'm glad to hear it, Sarge.

I've broken many a thing that didn't need fixing....but it still would be nice to see a full tang-
I'd like to know where the tang is in this handle.


munk
 
i had a parang come in about a week ago with a loose handle. someone had used some sort of frangeable glue to secure it which had deteriorated (it was not laha or resin, the remains were very yellow & powdery). a light tug seperated the blade and the grip & i was surprised that the tang was only about 2" long tapering from about 3/4" wide down to about 1/4" in that distance. being a traditionalist, i used some handy epoxy steel resin to fill the cleaned up handle, sanded the tang to remove all the gunk for a good join, and coated it in the remaining resin before re-uniting the two and removing the resulting resin that oozed out.

as it was not a particularly old or expensive one, i decided to use it on a few gardening tasks a few days later to see how the tang would hold up. a couple of 2-3" branches were a bit too big for the pruning shears - score: parang 2, branches 0. grip is still tight, no evidence of cracks or any damage at all.

my newest dha has an 8" handle, tang only goes in 4.5", blade is 25" & this is a bit long for a dha tang. my others are about 3.5" tangs

moral is, they made 'em that way cause it worked & i guess it saved them a bit of metal they thought was not necessary anyway. if the old-timey smiths had a lot of failures they probably would have had the next batch tested on their necks.
 
Probably goes back to what has been said a million times- the handles are replaceable, and not expected to last a lifetime. A half tang is the easiest to fit a handle on, isn't it?

Yangdu wrote me this am and said she couldn't post the picts- it didn't work for her. Any volunteers? I can email them to you.


munk
 
Will do. Ah heck- you know what? email me first at munk@ttc-cmc.net I can make sure you're in my address book and it will make it easier on my end.

I've a new address book because my old computer with all the files is down.

munk
 
You better send that knife to me Munk--I'd feel terrible if it breaks and ends up cutting you;) :D
 
I can't get over how good the handle does feel. You can reverse it- edge out and thumb up at Crow's head- the grip favored by knife fighter and martial artists, and it still feels right. An example of a simple, elegant, good looking design that also works. I think a very wide variety of hand sizes would find this grip fit.

munk
 
I have now had the pleasure of handling a Crow knife.

It needs nothing except to be used.

It has a beautiful balance...changing it to a full tang would shift the balance point too far to the rear and both slicing and chopping would suffer. It's a perfect camp/fighter as is...my vote is to leave it alone.

It's a great model...*lots* of these will be sold!
 
Nasty said:
I have now had the pleasure of handling a Crow knife.

It needs nothing except to be used.

It has a beautiful balance...changing it to a full tang would shift the balance point too far to the rear and both slicing and chopping would suffer. It's a perfect camp/fighter as is...my vote is to leave it alone.

It's a great model...*lots* of these will be sold!


Where's the pictures?
 
You handle the 13" model?

This is a good time to repeat something- a personal rule of mine.
When I was critical of the Jungle Killer's handle, some of you were surprised by my candor- I was seen as such a booster of HI, and here I was not pleased with the handle.

There's no doubt I'm a diehard loon for HI- and the ties go deep- through Rusty, Bill, and Yangdu. (and all of you) But this forum is, "The pursuit of truth in the company of Friends." (my old school's mottto)
I will always call them like I see them, and I'm permiable too- information goes both ways.

No one knows it all. Even guys like Ferguson, Sarge, et all and the many collectors, general knowledge buffs, and specialty experts learn something.

What is the point of a review? When I write one, I expect the truth. If I'm wrong I want to know it, and if it is incomplete I want our concensus to be broader and better than just one man. So here weigh in many of you on the partial tang.

This is the purpose of a review- to understand the tool. That is being done here. What more could be expected?

Anyway, it's a journey, it's not carved in stone, and I'm not the knife expert to do the carving anyway. I'm the guy who carries and uses these tools.

I still think it would do better with a full tang, and as for balance, the balance would be improved in the 15 and 18" models, which have more weight forward than the 13".

I'm happy to hear the votes of confidence in the partial tang. I'm tempted to test this one to destruction. Should I?

munk
 
OH YEAH- another sidebar:

It occured to me last night that it is possible in the minds of some people for ego to be involved in one of these reviews. What do I mean? As sorry as this may sound, it is within the human experience that some people will not like the Crow Knife merely because it was *I* who reviewed it. I know that sounds fantastic on it's face, but there you are.

HI and this forum come first. Not any one man or woman. We know that.
It was true when I was a mod and it's true now I'm a 'civilian' clod.
Always about the knife- not the writer.
There were apparently some people who actually believed I was establishing a cult of personality built around 'munk'. I know, I know; crazy.

What's the line? I'd never belong to a club that would have me as a member?

That is *one* of the reasons I resigned as Mod. It didn't matter to me- this place was fine. I was worried the first year and wanted to make sure the spiritual and psychological approach dear to Bill and Rusty was firmly in place. It is. Otherwise HI forum is just another camping survival forum with jokes and sympathy cards. I wonder if that is presumptious to some people, the *I* decided? Sort of too bad for them; I knew from talking to Yangdu and others it was not "I". Wanna hear a joke? It depends upon the definition of "Is", Is. Heh hey. That was the dharma job whether or not I was up to it, or deserving of such an honor. It was mine to do- per Rusty and Yangdu and our mutual visions.
I know, I know, it makes the detractors squirm; wuu wuu mysticism. Ever have a job to do just because you're in the spot? I organized the fund raiser for Pappy because it was my turn. Why is Steve Ferguson helping so much on the side for the kid? Why does Sarge help out so often with knowledge, and greeting newbies to make them feel at home? Just Is.



munk
 
Here they are
crow 001.jpg

crow 002.jpg

crow 003.jpg

crow 004.jpg

crow 005.jpg

crow 006.jpg
 
Like I said- it does chop. Not that deep, but few of my tools can cut deep on that particular limb. The limb from hell. I should bring it to a khuk Konvention and show you.

The edge grind is sort of a saber one, leaning towards convex. It really does have a nice hard edge. I'd guess at the very least a rockwell of 60, and it is probably more. Seems hardened a long ways too, certainly extending to any conceivable place you could use.


The picture without a knife is one view of the world from my backyard. Thought you might like it. Khuks are at home here.


Thank you, TED, for the picts.

munk
 
Neat.

Blade keeps reminding me of a Ka-Bar...

and a Ka-Bar is always a GOOD thing.

There's a lot of utility in a working, not decorative, false edge.



Mike :thumbup:
 
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