whats a good knife and edge for Whittling ?

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Kevin the grey

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Aug 26, 2005
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I was a little frustrated with the old drawknife today so I decided to use my becker necker as a substitute for shaping out a hawk handle . Even though it was shaving sharp there was almost no way to get the job done . I had to use a very slight angle which did little more than take off inner bark . I more than suspec it is the obtuse angle of the blade on the decker . No matter how sharp I get the edge I think it would still bind . I don,t especially want to reshape the becker blade as I am not through testing it . I would rather just take an ordinairy small butcher knife I have and bring it up to speed . What kind of edge and what-not do I need on a blade destined to do a fair amount of whittling?
 
Frosts (of Sweden) makes a nifty and affordable Scandi ground drawknife.
I bought mine from Ragnar or Smoky Mt. quite a while ago.

Maybe your draw knife needs a little stone and strop time?
 
Scandigrind.

Go for a finnish puukko, forget about the cheap swedish moras and frosts. Only advantage they have over a puukko is that you wont care if you brake or lose a mora-not a huge recommendation in my book...:)Think about a Roselli f.ex.
 
Thanks guys those are great answers and all seem to point in the same direction .
For the moment I have to work with what I have . Especially since Ragnar wouldn,t ship to Canada last time I checked . I have wanted a Mora for a long time as I had one as a kid . The most basic of them all with the rich red handle .
 
Here's an answer coming out of real-world experience (not mine).

My Wife's grandfather was a professional woodcarver for Pullman Corp. He decorated personal Pullman cars for the richest of the rich -- John D., J.P. and the like. His carving knives, U.S. and German, are mostly what I think are called "Sloyds." Sloyds or not, they all have generous handles compared to the blade length, oval in cross-section (wood, of course). All have an acute convex primary bevel - the natural result of free-hand sharpening. They all have a micro secondary bevel.

He used at least four hardnesses of "Arkansas" stones, the last looking more like glass than stone.

His knives encouraged me to collect wood-carving knives. With very few exceptions, the several dozen I have all match the description of Grandfather Wolf's knives. No sharpening machines back then. No fashionable styles - just what worked for a number of carvers.

From samples we have of his work, he was carving mostly hardwoods of various species.
 
I gotta disagree with the majority here and say I don't care for scandi type grinds at all on whittling blades. I'd go full convex all the way, or at least a full flat grind with a wide convex edge. The convexity lets you more easily control the depth of your cut. You can just rock the blade as it goes through and bring it back out of the cut again. The flats with no secondary bevel will want to just keep going deeper, giving you less control.
If you're going with a butcher type knife, I prefer one with enough thickness to remain stiff. I don't care for blade flex when deep whittling hard woods- and this activity can indeed put a fair amount of strain on the blade akin to prying.

That said, are you starting out with a stick that's fairly close to the size you need, or do you need to do a lot of wood removal? If the job would take me more than 20 minutes to do with a knife, I'd start with bigger tools. I find a hatchet to work very well for making deep controlled cuts by working slow and choking up next to the head. Also a very coarse rasp, such as those used for trimming hooves, can remove a lot of wood in controlled and extremely fast manner.
 
Thomas you have a rich heritage . I,ll look into that approach .

Possum I think you are coming closest to what I can use . As far as the butcher knife I was mentioning it because that is what I have , that I can spare . While its not that thick its role would need use only the part closer to the handle and so would act stiffer . I think I,ll do what you say about the rasp . The only hatchet type axes I have are my hawks and while I would use them in a pinch they are mostly for throwing and I like to leave their blades alone . (They get banged up enough as it is > L:O:L)
I am looking at a fiskars small axe right now as there is a good local sale on .
I,m very new to woodworking and I have done almost no rasp work . I think Someone gave me a farriers rasp that might be good for the rough work like you said . I do feel that even with my limited use of the drawknife I get a good feeling from it . I think I will be able to at least do the basics soon .
 
Kevin the grey said:
Especially since Ragnar wouldn,t ship to Canada last time I checked.
Click to expand...

I have ordered from them on several times no problems though I would not use that profile on a knife meant for fine wood shaping, the edge is too thick, too obtuse and has little control as possum noed. Whittling knives are generally very narrow so they can turn in cuts and the edges far thinner and more acute. Rather than a butcher knife start off with a paring knife and grind it full to the spine and then shapen the edge according to the steel and the type of wood, you can't carve oak with the same angle you can work clear pine. However in general, actual work shaping is done with axe then drawknife then rasp. Whittling knives are more for intricate shaping, chains and such or figurine carving. If you really want an optimal one, Alvin Johnston will give you a blank of heat treated 1095 which is already cut to shape as a small utility knife and at 66 HRC it takes a superb edge for fine working in wood and most other things.

-Cliff
 
You mean you guys don,t whittle logs into toothpicks ? L:O:L

So a Mora is too wide to be a good whittler ? All the woodworking tools at Ragnars seem job specific in that they are specialised for one kind of shaping .
Don,t you think it would have to be a robust paring knife to be a good whittler ?
I realise by whittling you have a "finer work" definition than I .As it should be .
Its too bad I just aquired just such a robust paring knife . I can,t give it up to woodworking . It is the first paring knife I considered a keeper .

I just picked up what I call a mini chefs knife by kuchen messer . I only paid 25 cents . I have tried researching it and keep coming up with a blank as far as single kitchen knives . Its got a full tang but doesn,t seem to be a high end knife . Could that be used ?
 
There are some specific Mora's and other blades on his site which are fairly narrow. I have a #1260 which has a decent general shape but the cross section is *WAY* too heavy, there is enough steel in it for several whittling knives. Generally whittling knives are not used for heavy stock removal, there are far better other wood working tools for that. This is a whittling knife :

http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/browseproducts/Whittling-Knife.HTML

Basically a paring knife with a larger handle because essentially the cutting actions are the same, both want really high cutting ability (thin and acute edge), the ability to turn sharply (narrow blade) and easily to manipulate point (short blade). For a knife to quickly rough out stock then an Opinel does well, I like the Mora 2000 for that also as well as a Blackjack Small.

The Mora is more robust being a fixed blade and do it can also handle other harder shaping like light batoning and twisting to split shingles and such.

-Cliff
 
That is one nice knife .
What about a butchers deboning knife ? I often see them for next to nothing because they are almost worn away . I sometimes see them with enough blade left to shorten and grind it into the shape of that whittler . .
 
Cliff,
I googled and found one of your reviews,

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/aj_paring.html

which had Alvin Johnston's web site.

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/

It does not look like he sells them; am
I correct?

His or any other good sources? Prices?

In today's world, a robust and sharp paring
knife, stored with some kitchen stuff,
would be a good backup. Less likely to
draw attention, I call it a sleeper.

I have a whittling knife similar to the one
shown: thin 1" long blade, 6" handle,
weighs nothing. I had no whittler experience,
but this knife makes it easy and SAFE.
I took some Detailed Instructions for a figure-4
deadfall trap, and made very good working
trap in 20 minutes. If I practiced, I could get
it down to 2 minutes, probably.

frank
 
Kevin the grey said:
I sometimes see them with enough blade left to shorten and grind it into the shape of that whittler . .
Click to expand...

Yes, on an extreme note, I have lots of chef's knives which have been so heavily used that they look like boning knives and they were all sharpened on grooved steels. Now those knives were definately worth their price.

fnc said:
It does not look like he sells them; am
I correct?
Click to expand...

Yes he doesn't sell them, he gives them away. He is a hobbiest maker, retired, just makes knives for fun and gives them to professionals usually, not "operators", just guys working with knives for a living like butchers or guys like Mike and I who just like to cut stuff for fun. He also gives away knife kits to pretty much anyone which are heat treated and shaped blanks. He hangs out on rec.knives.

I had no whittler experience,
but this knife makes it easy and SAFE.
I took some Detailed Instructions for a figure-4
deadfall trap, and made very good working
trap in 20 minutes. If I practiced, I could get
it down to 2 minutes, probably.
Click to expand...

Good tools do that, they also tend to make it more enjoyable which raises the likehood you will practice it and gain the needed experience to make it instinct.

-Cliff
 
Personally I like the sheepsfoot blade on a medium sized stockman, such as a Queen, Cold Steel, etc. Thin spine, flat ground, and *narrow*. If you can find that in a fixed blade, so much the better. Thin the edge out as much as the steel and wood will allow.
 
Akabu thats a great link . Are those blades robust ? Not that I proabably couldn,t rig a handle they sure look like there is a handle designed to go with them . It wasn,t evident on the site . I,m definitely going to pick up a small kit if I can figure out the handle .
 
You know some of the blades remind me of small carvers available in some x-acto kits . Are they more robust than that ? Lotsa questions I know . When I buy things off the net I try to be as specific as possible . Thanks
 
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