What's a "noob" to do?

[MT_Pokt]

I don't want to hijack other threads as much as they have been already, so I'll start a new topic that you can either participate... or not.

What's a "noob" to do?

Admittedly, I did not read all of the stickies, forum rules, instruction or any fine print associated with being a member here. That being said; I have been a member, moderator and even a founder of local and national forums over the years. I know how they work and usually what the intent of an open forum is.

So, for those who don't know, or for those who are unsure how this particular forum is meant to be used will some of the "old timers" please direct us "noobs" so that we keep the peace for the next generation of users of this information?

Here's where I'm most confused...

You say to "search" so we search. We find the information we're looking for but we have questions. We post in that thread to keep information relevant to the topic in the same thread. We get hammered for bringing back a dead thread, zombie thread, etc... You suggest we start a new thread about our topic in lieu of resurrecting an old thread, so we do. Then we get hammered for not searching?

My suggestion... participate in the topic at hand, or don't. I think it's petty to enter a topic to tell someone thanks for digging up a fossil. Or to enter a topic to tell someone to search. What does that say about you, the "old timers"?

If someone digs up an old thread where some of the participants aren't even alive any more and it upsets you; maybe you should either not participate in that conversation, or lobby for that (and all threads from that era) be archived, closed, locked, etc...

Archiving and locking old posts will also force new topics with links to the old threads which was suggested numerous times in the past as well.

Sorry for the rant. It just seems like we're putting more effort into telling "noobs" what they're doing wrong, than welcoming them to the community.

I didn't search for a similar topic, so if this has been covered in the past; please delete this. :thumbup:

 

[gsea]

Being a noob myself I agree with 1/2 of your rant. I personally think posts older than dirt should stay buried and a new thread started (my opinion). But I agree with the "use the search function" phrase being used time and time again. I will just not respond to a thread if I don't feel it is relevant or don't want to. The thread itself will die if ignored or not responded to and the "noobs" will figure out the do's and don'ts.

 

[Badhammer]

Not sure I've seen a member "hammered" for bringing back an old thread but the easiest thing to do if you find an old thread that you want to use as a reference for asking additional questions is to simply start a new thread and insert a link to the old thread. Something along the lines of, "Came across this old thread in a search, (insert link to thread) and was wondering, (insert question).

As far as using the search button goes, well I have mixed feelings. Sometimes the search engine leaves something to be desired and given the age of the forum and number of posts a person could probably find an answer to every possible question which means we'd never post unless it's about something new. On the flip side it does seem, from time to time that the same or nearly same question gets asked once a week for months on end. In that case I can see comments like "the search button is your friend" cropping up as a response.

 

[pinnah]

I work as a computer scientist in a field that deals with keyword driven searches of free text. Keyword searching can work if the corpus is relatively small (or tightly time constrained) and if the searcher has a strong pre-existing understanding of the corpus. Keyword searching generally fails if the corpus is large or if the searcher doesn't have a strong pre-existing understanding of the corpus.

This partially explains why forum "regulars" can often find the threads they recall while "noobs" can't find what they're looking for.

My recommendations for noobs are:

1) Until you're accepted as a forum regular, preface any question post with "I couldn't find this using the search function so perhaps somebody can help..." This is true 99.9% of the time, regardless of whether or not you actually try to search.

2) If you do want to spend time searching PHP based forums (this includes bladeforums.com), use Googles "site" search feature. An example would be:
site:bladeforums.com buck 119 current steel


My recommendations for regulars are:

1) Just accept that noobs won't find what you remember using the search function. No amount of reminding the noobs to use the search function will change this. Keyword search has very limited utility and heavily favors the regulars.

2) Either help the "noob" or don't. If you recall a particularly helpful thread, post the link (hand the man fish) and post the search string you used to find (teach a man to fish). I don't see "use the search function" as being particularly helpful.


Some reading material...
http://www.ftitechnology.com/doc/White-Papers/whitepaper-ediscovery-keyword-search-2009.pdf
http://techcrunch.com/2008/04/25/is-keyword-search-about-to-hit-its-breaking-point/
http://www.equivio.com/files/files/...anding the Limitations of Key Word Search.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_text_search

 

[Stumps]

I've never been bothered one way or another about old threads brought back.
Some here don't like it, so I tend not to bring back the older threads.
I actually enjoy thinking back to the people that have passed on to a better place. It brings back great memories of them.
I also enjoy seeing who used to be on the forum and some of the old timers that are still here after a decade or more.


pinnah….I am not very computer literate. I have used the search engine on Blade Forums with limited success.
Are you saying in your quote below to enter a Google search like this; site:bladeforums.com Buck 119 current steel

That would make things much easier and probably get better results than using the Blade Forum's search.

2) If you do want to spend time searching PHP based forums (this includes bladeforums.com), use Googles "site" search feature. An example would be:
site:bladeforums.com buck 119 current steel

 

[abbydaddy]

As a noob myself, I wanted to express my agreement with the frustration. I understand that the same questions get asked a lot, but often there are details that the asker wants taken into account that are not adequately covered in other related threads. )Of course, it sometimes seems like people aren't really interested in paying attention to the details of the original post when they respond.) It always makes me fume when someone responds to thread just to tell someone to search for 10 year old answers to a question.

 

[bertl]

Pinnah,

Do Boolean operators help with Google site search? I use them but I'm not sure if I'm just kidding myself.

Bert

 

[AreBeeBee]

Google spends a lot of time and money polishing search engines, and as far as I can see, they're ahead of all the others, especially in the case of sites whose Search function isn't powered by Google.

One problem with keywords is that they develop out of natural language which doesn't stay fixed. They're good for a while, but then terminological drift sets in and they go stale. Thus even well-designed keyword searching is going to favor a particular span of time when the term is in common use, and be less effective outside of that timespan where it's not as widely used.

For what it's worth, I have no problem skipping threads that look either noob or geek if it appears there isn't anything of interest to me. Otherwise they're fun to read, even if the material is familiar — and there's usually something new anyway.

 

[David Martin]

Ok, Forums as well as so many other things have etiquette of their own. Just like some have manners and some don't. I cannot recall bringing up a 3-4 year old post to make one comment or ask ONE question. If I took the time to look back that far I'd have some answers. If not, I'd start a new topic. I've never figured out why it's so difficult to start a new topic. Then add a footnote, toward; if this has been discussed before post the informational link. Then you get the best of both worlds. 1) some may discuss your topic, 2) others may provide answers to your question thru links to old topics with out rehashing it all. Some of the topics were very well answered and someone possibly just missed it. There are also foreigners who visit that have language challenges and for them respect should be shown.
The search feature has changed but I can usually find the info. a gent is wanting by using it. So, I suspect a attempt was not made. I'll be more sensitive in the future. IF one of those old topics are brought up where there was MUCH arguing or those posting in it were friends and have recently passed. I'll not post in it... YEs, new members have no way of knowing that. I can see the squeeze play afoot. 'Darned if we do and darned if we don't.' What's wrong with beginning the post by just coming out with, --- I know this is a old topic but... ? So, I can see there needs to be some give on both sides and some tact. In the end you still get your question answered. Good quick information spoon fed. Still, you did not have to read and search for days, weeks even months on end to not find it. When I started out that's what I had to do. Technology is catching up with some collectors knowledge and appreciation could be shown. DM

 

[David Martin]

Other thoughts: I traffic in several Forums here and there are 'clicks' in them. Guys who have been there a long time and anyone visiting / posting must agree with him or them. Or they get put down or snubbed. Be glad we are not like that here. I think the members are better here. They are sooo helpful and DO try to welcome new comers. Also, new guys need to realize we have not always been like this. It have been fraught with heated comments and many good, collectors left. Never to return. Taking with them a lot of knowledge that we cannot replace. Is it perfect here? No. But it is much better than most Forums and we are human. Be grateful and tread with respect. It will take you a long way. DM