What's happening with ATS-34/154CM?

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Oct 9, 2005
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During the past few years they were what you heard about & saw being used in all kinds of top of the line blades. But now it seems that is changing towards S30V, VG-10, D2, & most recently ZDP-189.

Anyone else getting a sense that ATS-34/154CM are not quite as highly regarded as they were just a short time ago?
 
There's just more choice these days. When Bob Loveless first popularized those steels, it was the 70's.

Times are a changin'. People just want the newest and "best" steels -see how 440C isn't considered the kind of the hill anymore.

P.S. They're are not bad at all. Just that there are good alternatives these days (with bettter rust resistance and edge retention) eg. S30V, VG10, ZDP-189, etc.
 
With companies like Gerber and CRKT cheapening their steels and low keying it, it makes me wonder. I almost never see decent 440C anymore. And many manufacturers are opting for 440A instead (why??). AUS 6 and AUS 8 I think are common, and pretty decent, steels. And the Cold Steel 440As I've had can be sharpened to a very, very sharp edge, and they hold those edges okay. I've got a Benchmade with ATS-34 and it holds an edge very well, but the steel itself doesn't seem to be as heavy. I don't know. Could be my imagination.

I see different tables listing knife steels, but no one list has all of them. I called Cold Steel once and asked about 440A and the tech guy I spoke with clearly didn't like it. He said they got a batch of it at a good price and that once it was gone, the knives made of it would be discontinued. Even so, I've found it to be a very good steel. Maybe not "outstanding," but most people who own 440A blades from good companies seem to like theirs.

I've heard a lot of good things about VG-10 and S30V, but the prices tend to be prohibitive for me. I'd rather have a carbon knife and just take care of it. My dad's Ka-Bar from World War II has never formed a speck of rust in decades. Most folders could be made with carbon blades, IMHO.


Confed
 
S30V, VG-10, & D2 are obviously great blade steels.

My question is more about 154CM and ATS-34. Are they suddenly in lower regard among production knife manufacturers?

For a specific example, the 710 moving from 154CM to D2 & Benchmade announcing a "steel upgrade".

Overall - including corrosion resistance - is D2 a clear "upgrade" from 154CM?

Or is it more like: D2 and 154CM are both great steels, with D2 better in some ways & 154CM better in others?
 
I'm going to step out on a limb here and say that most people would be happy with 440A blade steel if they didn't know it was 440A. It is certainly not as good as 440C, AUS8, or anything better. This can be easily demonstrated by sharpening two knives of similar blade shape and bevel. You will quickly see that an AUS8 blade is easier to get a razor sharp edge on than 440A. Then cut some cardboard. The 440A knife will start to dull quicker than the AUS8 knife. If you like your knives to be razor sharp, you won't be happy with 440A. But most folks don't keep their knives razor sharp, although many of those same people think that they do. If you can't actually shave with it, it ain't razor sharp. And shaving some hair off your arm doesn't count. I own knives that I like which have 440A blades. They're good knives with good ergonomics, but I don't expect them to be as sharp as my other knives. Let's face it, razor sharpness is not required for opening boxes and packaging, cutting string and plastic ties, or the myriad of other daily tasks that most people use their knives for. You hear it said that sharp knives are safer. That's true to a point, but an EDC knife that will cut you if you look at it wrong is probably not as safe as one that isn't quite so sharp. Put another way, 440A is good enough for most common tasks. If you don't believe me, just ask yourself "What did I cut today?" My guess is that if you're honest with yourself, you'll admit that the knife you used didn't have to be sharp enough to shave with in order to do the task safely. And once you've reached that conclusion, then ask yourself "How much did I cut today?" Again, the answer for most people will be one or two things (not counting your dinner). So do you really need a knife that can cut a mile of cardboard without being sharpened? Probably not. And if that's true, then you don't need to be carrying a knife with better steel than 440A.
 
In regards to the Benchmade 710. Benchmade did a whole lot of steel changing. I bet it has more to do with what kind of deal you make with your supplier. They dumped M2 (and that was sad), and also 440C.

The move to D2 in the 710, I would guess was more of a marketing move than anything else. The 710 is a little long in the tooth, so to speak, so a change in blade steel might just move more units. The same being true with the 940/943. The move to S30V will move more knives.

D2 may give an edge in edge retention, but you do give up some corrosion resistance verses 154CM.

154CM is used by a lot of quaity makers. Benchmade, Emerson to name a couple. There may be newer and more flashy steels, but I don't think anyone will every consider either ATS-34 or 154CM to be cheap steels.
 
154CM is alive and well. We sell more 154CM than any other grade and this should continue for quite some time. I see 154CM as that perfect mid-point grade as far as performance and price point. It is also a good thing that the NEW grades are coming out. The more coices we have when we buy a knife - all the better. Complacency is a bad thing so as the knife steel companies push each other to introduce new and better grades - good stuff for the knife enthusiast !!!
 
Steel has seen some significant price increases during the last year, so many manufacturers have been making knives from cheaper steels and maintaining their prices. But even though most people don't need premium steels, it's still nice to have because folks like nice products and knives aren't all that high of a ticket item. Even people who can do with a cheap knife (under $10) usually want to spring for something better. The interesting thing is, carbon steel probably performs better, or as well, as premium stainless and is significantly less expensive. And if carried and used daily is unlikely to rust.

Still, stainless is what most people want.


--Confed
 
Thanks guys. I am a bit of a novice and I learn a lot reading the various discussions regarding steel, etc.
 
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