What's in your Hamon "kit"?

M

Maelstrom78

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Sep 21, 2013
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I've been getting some faint HLL (Hamon Like Lines) with refractory cement on Aldo's 1084 ( all I'm set up to HT at the moment ). I know 1084 is not the greatest for Hamons but something like this would be nice.

2chq03q.jpg



I'd like to be able to at least get some more defined quench lines.

So far I have Rhynowet up to 2500 grit, refractory cement, Coors and the radio in the background.

My list to get includes:

Makeup removal pads for rubbing
-Ferric Chloride (have been using white vinegar)
-Polishing powder (what grits? where to get? - could I use polishing compound from my buffer? I have green, white and blue already)
-?
-?
-?
-Extra hours in the day for shop time :)

Thanks much!

-Additional question: I sanded one side of a blade with a straight bar and seem to have lost any hamon/quench line. The other side I sanded with a block with 1/16 cork backing. That side retained it's lines. I was reading where Mr. Straub noticed something similar in my stalkings on the web.

Can I try to get the hamon/quench line back with some more heated vinegar rubbed on? Take another whack at it? Thanks again!
 
Diluted HCl ( 100:1), FC, lemon juice
chromium oxide
red iron oxide
black iron oxide (magnetite)
tin oxide, FC
fine SC grit
3M polishing papers ( 400-8000)
Choji or other pure oil
Flitz polish
1.25" round gun cleaning patches.....lots of them!

Other supplies:
White enamel paint ( Testors) and finer sable brushes
popsicle sticks
Tough painters tape to mask areas off ( blue or Frog tape)
 
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Try not sanding after the etch. Rub it down with very fine steel wool then used powdered abrasives. You can scrape that buffing compound onto your blade and use it lubed with WD-40 (not my idea originally but works great)
 
Awesome. Thanks guys. Stacy I've been reading up and I remember you posting that the powders have utility outside their relative grits as well.

I think I'll have to pick up a small tackle box and make my kit.

Anyone else have a thought? I'll try reviving my hamon later this week.
 
If you want to chase hamon, my advice is a steel change.

If you can heat treat 1084, then you are able to heat treat 1075. Get some of Aldo's 1075 and you will get a much more active hamon.

Here's one of mine with 1075.

 
Beautiful.

I'm using just a 2 brick propane forge now. I'll look into HT for 1075. Maybe with some tempilstiks for judging the blade temp.

This is the blade in question. My first kitchen esque one. Red fiber liner. Black paper micarta. Good even taper and bevels. 2 tiny spots on the handle where I dinged the handle ( must get a small wheel) and a hidden wavy quench line.
nef8l0.jpg
 
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Watch Nick Wheelers videos on using vinegar and lemon juice....

You can get a nice depth in your hamon without the grey look of using FC.
 
A couple things...

While I totally agree with John and Karl about changing steel if you really wanna pursue cloudy hamon... I can see in your photo above that you do have a nice wavy line that could be brought out. It won't have lots of crazy, cloudy, whispy stuff...but it is definitely differentially hardened. With some elbow grease it could be brought out like this one---

large.jpg


Now with that said, I would not recommend you do a bunch of etching and polishing on a finished knife. It's way too easy to screw things up.

I used to hand sand my blades to 2500X, but I haven't done that in quite some time. It definitely makes it easy to bring out the cloudy and whispy stuff, but it also adds a lot of hand sanding time to the equation that isn't completely necessary.

I would only recommend you SAND a blade after etching it, IF you did a really aggressive etch and you're sanding with super fine paper. That's not my approach, but it does have its place.

Loose grit abrasives are the hamon seekers friend... I've got them in every grit from 120X to 3micron. But 1500X silicon carbide is my "go-to" grit. :)



Good luck... it's a sickness. ;) :)
 
I've simolified my process. White vinegar and lemon juice are what I use to etch. Powdered abrasives are a must. I have 1500 only right now, and it's meeting my needs.

Steel choice is most important. W2, W1, Aldo's 1075, and Hitachi White are awesome for this. 1095 works too, but isn't as dramatic as the W2, Hitachi White, 1075 choices. W1 depends on the source. Mine has a bit of vanadium in it which helps.
 
I got my 1500 grit silicon carbide powder fron ebay and you get a lot for the money. I pretty much learned most of the stuff I do from Nick Wheeler's threads :thumbup: . Also, I like vinegar a lot more than ferric chloride, the FC tends to not bring out the nicely hidden whispy details of the hamon as well as vinegar and or lemon juice does. For 1084 though, with what you have being a wavy temper line as opposed to an active hamon, I think FC could work well. Also, get some Flitz to polish the blade after each individual etch, I have only used the blue paste kind but I have heard guys (Like Nick) say they like the liquid Flitz better. After the final etch and polish with Flitz, rub the blade with the 1500 grit SC powder mixed with some ballistol or 3 in 1 oil. But yea, check out ebay for the loose abrasive powders.

A quick list of the basics:

- 1500 grit silicon carbide powder
- Flitz polish
- Distilled White Vinegar, or Lemon Juice, or Ferric Chloride (add a drop or 2 of dish soap to the vinegar or lemon juice to break surface tension for an even finish)
- Windex (with Amonia) to Neutralize any of the acids
- Ballistol or 3 in 1 oil. (Get some Ballistol either way, it's great for everything and smells like black liquorice :D ;) )

ETA: Here are some great tutorials from a few diferent knifemakers. I advise you read every part of all four of them! :) there are ovbiously more out there but I'm sure these will help cover pretty much all basis and different methods to get ya goin ;)

1. Nick Wheeler's Tutorial (I personally like this method the best :thumbup: )

2. Ryan Week's Tutorial

3. Stacy Apelt gives great info here!

4. Eric Dobratz Tutorial

Hope this helps! :)

~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
 
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Hey Willie, where do you get your good W1 from? I've been wondering where to get some with a good reliable carbon and alloy content for a few years now. All of the normal online steel supplier type places that have tool steel sections show their W1 with wide ranges in the carbon and other alloys. Sorry, not trying to derail the thread :foot:

~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
 
Nick- Thank you so much. Sounds like the workhorse of the polishing grits is 1500 SC. You are right about going after the hamons. It's something that you can't get on a knife from Gander Mountain. Like my neighbor buddy said. What's the difference between something you could make and something I could pick up for $35 at Cabellas? Well tapered tangs, quench lines/hamons proper edge geometry etc..

Willie- I'll have to keep the Vanadium content in mind.

ColdSteelBurns - Those links are great! So you etch then Flitz then etch and Flitz several times and then do some final polishing with the 1500 SC with the oil?

Stacy - Flitz must be a finer grit than 1500 then

Thanks very much for all of the great information. Chasing the hamon indeed!

How does one pronounce hamon? like HAM ON rye? Hamon like Ramone? Hay-mon like we are in Jamaica?
 
Flitz is a fine metal polish that both polishes the steel in the ji as well as colors it (A darker sheen). I use a folded flannel pad ( fold the circle twice to make a wedge shape) with a small dab of Flitz to carefully work the area above the hamon ( the ji). Add a new dot of Flitz every few inches. Change pads as needed.
This is the last step after all hamon polishing and ha polishing is done.

Basic steps:
Polish the entire blade to 1500

Etch and develop the hamon, ashi, nie/nioi, etc. by various etchants and powders. One fully happy with the hamon and fine details, they can be painted over with white acrylic enamel ( use a hard, solvent base type and let dry overnight) and polished right up to the paint line safely. When the entire blade is done, the enamel can be removed gently with acetone or mineral spirits.

Polish the ha ( area below the hamon) with tin oxide powder or hazuya ( Tiny hard finger stones). Be gentle around ashi and any nioi clouds.

Polish the ji with Flitz or jizuya ( tiny medium hard finger stones). Be gentle around nioi clouds , but you can usually polish over nie. Thepaint trick works here, too.

Polish the yokote and kissaki.

Clean the blade well (remove any paint first) Clean again with a light oil and remove excess, leaving a light film.
 
Here is gaijin way.

Hand sand to CLEAN 400 grit. Etch blade is diluted Ferric (3 parts water to 1 part ferric), for about 5 minutes. Hit it with windex out of etch and rinse under water while wiping hard with 0000 steel wool. Plop some mother's mag & aluminum polish on a sturdily clamped blade and rub the heck out of it with your fingers. Or you can spray it with WD-40, scrape some white buffing compound onto the blade with a pocket knife or whatever, and rub with a felt pad. (thanks Casey & Matt) Then clean it with acetone and oil it. Super easy, good results with W2.

t511zn.jpg


Another thing is those nice whispy white cloud lines fade quick under use and they will be hard to touch up. This is the same knife and it was used to baton wood, start a campfire in the rain, and cut random stuff on a campout last weekend. You can touch this dark hamon up in probably less than 15 minutes by repeating the steps.

a082tj.jpg


One knife I made with the whispy clouds I gave to a friend and you could actually rub the detail away if you rubbed it with your thumb.
 
coldsteelburns said:
Hey Willie, where do you get your good W1 from? I've been wondering where to get some with a good reliable carbon and alloy content for a few years now. All of the normal online steel supplier type places that have tool steel sections show their W1 with wide ranges in the carbon and other alloys. Sorry, not trying to derail the thread :foot:

~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
Click to expand...

I got it from the local Metal Supermarkets. I have one rod, and tested some coupons and its similar in heat treat to Aldo's W2. Its listed as having traces of vanadium and chromium. Much nicer hamon than the 1095 I used before. I have no idea if its a reliable supply. They don't stock it, and it was in the leftover bin. Someone ordered it and never picked it up.
 
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