What's its worth?

D

davebolton

Joined
Jun 25, 2001
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Just saw two katana at an antique market. Both are nicely folded steel with the full dress, and are apparently both circa 1870. Both are in very good shape, but I'd say the overall craftsmanship is def. only journeyman. What kind of dollars is reasonable for such an item if its actually as its described?
 
I'd say you need to post some pictures to even let people get ballpark and even then I think it's problematic. There are things that can only be told by actually handling a blade and usually even then only if the handler has a lot of experience.

How do you know they are circa 1870?
 
An expert would probably require detailed information and good photos to determine the value of such a sword. Check out www.japaneseswordsocietyofcanada.org . They might be able to help you or know of someone in your area that could help.

It is quite complicated to put a value on old Japanese swords. Years ago I met a man who had quite an extensive collection. He had pages of documention for each sword describing every little detail. Putting together all the little details determined the value of the sword. He had swords ranging from $3,000 to $8,000 but that was about 15 years ago.

A good site for info on old Japanese swords is www.geocities.com/alchemyst/nihonto.htm
 
For one thing if you know Nihonto there are many art swords missing, national treasures...I dont know how you know a ball park figure for the age you gave but there are VERY VALUABLE nihonto out there from when America decided to hit japan where it would hurt the most (destroying and stealing many swords, in the many thousands, the sword is one of 3 sacred objects of japan).

I'd be inclined to buy them depending on there quality, and if they are real...there are bargains and treasures to be found out there. :)
 
Do a rubbing of the tang and a good digi photo to make sure the tang of a well made and valuable sword has not been welded to an inferior blade. This happens when the good blade is worn or damaged. A good looking, but inferior blade gets the tang in the hope some one uniformed will pay top $ for it. You can send the pics to the sword museum in Yoyogi if you like or if you are having probs reading it at your end send it to me and I will ask my wife to translate it for you.

edited to add.

FYI a POS Gendaito (Modern Sword) goes for about $1500, this is beaten and folded but not very good. I have been to a forge to watch a demo. It was a bit of a letdown as the 'smith' did a very abbreviated demo.

Anyway, talking to people there they said his stuff wasnt that good but it was fine for practice and chopping up wet reed mat rolls (I had a go :) ) As I mentioned these go for $1500 for a Daito (Big Sword, or Katana) If the thing you have seen is as old as you say and is from Bizen then it will be worth a pretty penny.
 
Just a couple of words of caution though Kanji are frequently forged both now and in period the mere existence of kanji doesn't really mean much. Also it is my understanding that old Japanese is different then new Japanese? I may have that bit wrong.
 
Well Russ,

There are different ways of reading Kanji, as there are multiple pronunciations of various characters. Mei reading itself can be annoying, though there are general templates one can follow, and with the right reference materials finding a mei isn't terribly difficult.

Kanji are more often than not kanji. Pre-modern kanji (that predate simplified Chinese characters) are in traditional style, but differentiating simplified from traditional is not terribly difficult, particularly if you have any experience with Chinese.

However, many things in the Japanese sword world are not very concrete. Even gimei can be valuable. You need to know the whole sword, and it needs to be in the right condition. If you just look at the mei and rust or if you just look at the hamon or hada style, or if you just look at the sugata and whether it's suriage or not...you are only painting a partial, limited picture.
 
Temper said:
FYI a POS Gendaito (Modern Sword) goes for about $1500, this is beaten and folded but not very good. I have been to a forge to watch a demo. It was a bit of a letdown as the 'smith' did a very abbreviated demo.
Click to expand...

well FYI the Enomoto family of modern smiths IMO are the 20th and 21st century Masamune's (and my personal favourite family of smiths just by there amazing art swords)...some gendaito go for well into the hundred's of thousands of dollars to order from a top level smith. just because its old doesnt make it any better, I've seen some POS older katana i wouldnt pay $100 for.

Modern times have led modern smiths useing traditional methods to experiement a little more...alot more art swords are being made and top quality Iai swords. Saying "a POS Gendaito (Modern Sword) goes for about $1500" is a terribly ignorant thing to say.
 
Hey Robert, Im just calling as I have seen it living here in Japan for 10 years. This comment was based on visiting various Smiths, Gendaito shops and talking to old guys that collect them.

The cheapest Gendaito (beat and folded) that you can get in Japan will be around $1500 (US) but you should be looking to pay $10,000 for anything respectable.

Of course there is old crap but they are usually the military swords that were mass produced during the conflicts of the early 20th century.

When I said POS I was reffering to the quality of the Smith that made it. Personally I wouldnt want an old Blade as a Gendaito could be made to order and considering it will only be used to please the eye it would be best if its a style and hammon that you actually like.
 
well there are lots of swords made for Iai, you dont need something fancy for that...

...and it depends, if theres one rule in Nihonto is that theres an exception to every rule. nothing is cut and dry, if you refer to gunto they are illegal as you'd know in japan so 20th century military swords in effect shouldnt exist in japan ;)
 
You can get a really good one fer 500 to 1000, bcuz the Euros weren't all hung up on pricey or fancy fittings for a munitions grade sword.

Keith
 
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