Whats so special about M4?

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kevtan

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May 28, 2000
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It seems that there is a rush to get knives in M4. Whats so magical baout M4? Did a bit of search and found that there are some makers singing praises about the steel with regards to the edge stability and toughness. So how does it compare to the 3V steel used by Fehrman? Roger of www.knifeworks.com seems to have two exclusive folders made by Benchmade in the steel of the month(!). Does anyone have a blade made from this steel that will do a comparison to the other super steels like Hitachi Blue or 3V or even 1V??
 
it is more wear resistant but less tough than 3V, and higher than M2 in both measures. Several winning knives in competition cutting have been made with it. With the cult status of Benchmade's M2 blades, CPM M4 was the next logical(?) steel to drool over.

M4, 3V, and Super Blue were the top three choices for follow-up to the 52100 Spyderco Mule, so hopefully the comparisons will be able to be made.
 
So hopefully it will be figured out which metal will be the ultimate to be coveted and "quenched by the sweat off of a virgin's thighs" that everyone will want to eventually own for their ultimate knife. :D Seriously, I do like looking at the Mule results.
 
Some steel types are tough, some are wear resistant, but CPM M-4 is a very nice balance of both. Unless you need something stainless, it should be one of the best hard use EDC steel types out there.
 
Yes this is first CPM presented in ABS competition, before they uses Carbon steels. So it sound promising, however it is to early to say how good it is - it just start coming on the market from Benchmade.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
The best thing about m4 is that knives made from it(710, maybe afck) is some time will be two times more expensive than their m2 conuterparts :).

Better investment...
 
idaho said:
The best thing about m4 is that knives made from it(710, maybe afck) is some time will be two times more expensive than their m2 conuterparts :).

Better investment...
Click to expand...


Not really!

I've got a four year old 710 M2 LNIB whose box says $118.95 And this was four years ago dollars.

The new price for the 710 M4 will be approx $140.00 or so... in today's dollars.

That's about equal to the $118.95 in 2004 dollar equivalent.

IMHO, that means the M4 and M2 are about the same... price wise.

BTW, some people are even 'dissing' M2 steel and now that M4 will be available, their implication is that M2 is 'not that good'... my comment to this is...

M2 is fantastic knife steel! I know because I use it on my other Benchmade knives.

Even though I'll have a few M4 knives on the way soon, this does not mean that I'll either get rid of the M2 or put then in the safe.

M2 still rocks! :D
 
try and buy a four year old 710 in M2 and see the price difference, easily doubled. Now cut the total number of knives down to 200 (the M4 run) and think of the collectors. :)
 
Its not the concern for collectors value is in the value of the steel in terms of usage. I have a few M2 Benchmades which is very good and easier to sharpen than SS. But how is the M4 Rex better than M2? Is there any quantitive values, say 20% tougher - or able to sustain a thinner blade profile without breaking large chuncks off the edge. Sorta like the legendary Krein flat grind that everyone who has it done raves about. Could this REX be THE steel for the the mystical zero degree edge??
 
This is Crucible data:

CPM-06.jpg


Thanks, Vassili.
 
Looking at the graphs, it seems that M4 is only 10% tougher and 20% more wear resistant if the graph is linear. But if the graph is logarithmic then it is more than double what M2 is.

What about the best tempered hardness vs toughness ?? There has been some test that proves some steel gets weaker if the hardness is lessen, conversely there are some steel that gets tougher at a lower hardness. Going back to my old Blade Mag, the consensus is that 61.5 HrC is the best for a chopper with near zero edge.

What about the best geometry for the BM710M4? Grinds like the original 710 or more like the Spyderso Mini Calypso? If the REX can support the flat grind, maybe we can ask Roger to get BM to make them with flat grind???
 
kevtan said:
Looking at the graphs, it seems that M4 is only 10% tougher and 20% more wear resistant if the graph is linear. But if the graph is logarithmic then it is more than double what M2 is.
Click to expand...

how do you mean, measuring the bars, M4 toughness is 50.9% longer (55 pixels to 83), and wear resistance is 50.6% longer (83 pixels to 125).

What about the best tempered hardness vs toughness ?? There has been some test that proves some steel gets weaker if the hardness is lessen, conversely there are some steel that gets tougher at a lower hardness. Going back to my old Blade Mag, the consensus is that 61.5 HrC is the best for a chopper with near zero edge.
Click to expand...

With what steel? Some steels would have an as quenched hardness near 61-62, meaning untempered martensite and its most brittle. Some steels won't hit that measure at all.
 
61.5 HrC refers to the M4 as used for the 2007 Cutting Competition by Osbourne and another maker. Sorry for not being specific. Dont have the mags here with me now but its the 1 with the Linnville DIY kit as the cover.
 
I agree, but wear resistance does matter in folders, and the chart shows M4 beats S30V by a pretty healty margin. If it's finally catching on, it sure took long enough. Why did S30V catch on so quickly while M4 and CV20 take so long?
 
because we are all mentally ill, and my perfectly fine knife that my grandfather would have killed for is not good enough any more.
 
Wow i was thinking of selling my DMDC but after reading thtat swcale no chance.
Is there any tougher?.
 
wutitiz said:
I agree, but wear resistance does matter in folders, and the chart shows M4 beats S30V by a pretty healty margin. If it's finally catching on, it sure took long enough. Why did S30V catch on so quickly while M4 and CV20 take so long?
Click to expand...
M4 is a high speed steel, while S30V is a stainless, which is the reason I would give for it catching on more slowly. 20CV is sold by Latrobe which has a reputation for having fewer sizes, slower delivery dates, and less popularity than Crucible in the knifemaking business.
 
I read these posts and I wonder: for most any use that most of us have, does it really make any difference.

I have knives in M2, D2, S30V, VG-10, and etc. etc. - they all cut the things that I need to cut.

I realize that for people with special use needs it can make a difference, but for most of us..........
 
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