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What's the carbon content of 5160 spring steel ?
- Thread starter Astrodada
- Start date
ferguson said:
But i heard that steel cannot be fully hardened to the state of martinsite.....until the carbon content is at least 0.7-0.8 %........(but it was really hard edge that it is hard n brittle n may not serve the purpose of a khuk).............
Think I have learned today again..............
ferguson said:
Thanks Steve.............After reading that...........It is almost not possible to put the correct science in pure words anymore..........you have to know your material (steel) .........which is too intimate that before and after that skillful(magical) quench (cooling) procedure in order to understand it fully.......
I am only getting a glimpes of it...............
Thanks Steve..............
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- May 28, 2003
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It isn't magic, it's science. 
5160 is commonly used for swords, since it takes a decent edge (RC 55-57), but is pretty tough. Some steels may take a harder edge, such as 1095, but the steel is not as likely to survive chopping - given normal heat treatment and a very large blade.
Lots of carbon may make for a harder edge, but too hard and too much carbon are not good for large blades.
Many bladesmiths will not use steels with very high carbon content for blades that are longer than about 10-12 inches.
Lots of carbon may make for a harder edge, but too hard and too much carbon are not good for large blades.
Many bladesmiths will not use steels with very high carbon content for blades that are longer than about 10-12 inches.
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Uh...Arty...maybe you shouldn't exactly go offering opinions on stuff you ain't xactly clear on...
I think maybe there are a lot of smith's who would go bonkers by what you just said...
Including me...
Mr Fogg and Mr. Fikes would disagree also...
NOt too good at posting links...so I will post the text...and then a pic...
"This is a new collaboration between Jimmy Fikes and Don Fogg. The blade is forged 1095 high carbon steel selectively hardened and polished to show a beautiful hamon. The sword overall length is 30.75", the cutting edge is 16.25" with the widest point being 2.375". The versatility of this design is readily apparent once it is in your hand. By extending the handle length you have the power of a two handed sword. By choking up on the handle it functions like a large camp knife. To see an example of the power and performance of the blade go to Cutting Test. To see a cut demonstrating how sharp it is go to Papercut. Jimmy has a cutting DVD that he is offering if you are interested Email us.
Relatively light weight, designed to be the ultimate pack weapon, this represents our re-entry into the tactical field. This blade is sold without a scabbard and is available for immediate delivery for $2,500. If you are interested please Email, it will be sold on a first come, first serve basis. SOLD
It can be seen better on Mr. Fogg's website....
Incidentally...where did you get all your "knowledge" about blade steels and carbon content and edge retention and rockwell hardnesses?
I started a thread a long time ago ...can't remember if it was here or on swords forums...spouting off about HI khuks being 5160 believing that most spring steel was indeed that...Only Mercedes don't use 5160...it is another variant...and if I understand the german engineering type guy that corrected me...it is a higher quality steel...at least goes through tighter specs...than say, a leaf spring from a duece and a half. I think that is why the kamis go so far to get it as a first choice.
5160...or any steel will vary in carbon content...depending on so many things...
Enjoy the pics of Cloud Cutter...and you may want to check out all the other guys...like Tai Goo...who use those simple steels for heavy choppers...
Shane
I think maybe there are a lot of smith's who would go bonkers by what you just said...
Including me...
Mr Fogg and Mr. Fikes would disagree also...
NOt too good at posting links...so I will post the text...and then a pic...
"This is a new collaboration between Jimmy Fikes and Don Fogg. The blade is forged 1095 high carbon steel selectively hardened and polished to show a beautiful hamon. The sword overall length is 30.75", the cutting edge is 16.25" with the widest point being 2.375". The versatility of this design is readily apparent once it is in your hand. By extending the handle length you have the power of a two handed sword. By choking up on the handle it functions like a large camp knife. To see an example of the power and performance of the blade go to Cutting Test. To see a cut demonstrating how sharp it is go to Papercut. Jimmy has a cutting DVD that he is offering if you are interested Email us.
Relatively light weight, designed to be the ultimate pack weapon, this represents our re-entry into the tactical field. This blade is sold without a scabbard and is available for immediate delivery for $2,500. If you are interested please Email, it will be sold on a first come, first serve basis. SOLD
It can be seen better on Mr. Fogg's website....
Incidentally...where did you get all your "knowledge" about blade steels and carbon content and edge retention and rockwell hardnesses?
I started a thread a long time ago ...can't remember if it was here or on swords forums...spouting off about HI khuks being 5160 believing that most spring steel was indeed that...Only Mercedes don't use 5160...it is another variant...and if I understand the german engineering type guy that corrected me...it is a higher quality steel...at least goes through tighter specs...than say, a leaf spring from a duece and a half. I think that is why the kamis go so far to get it as a first choice.
5160...or any steel will vary in carbon content...depending on so many things...
Enjoy the pics of Cloud Cutter...and you may want to check out all the other guys...like Tai Goo...who use those simple steels for heavy choppers...
Shane
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,331
Bah.
One day, if I can convince you, I'll get a larger version of The Soldier's Knife from you, Shane. I'm certain it will be both more attractive and more useful for outdoor activities like camping than Cloud Cutter, and I bet you won't charge me more than 1/3 of the price.
The point about the capability for larger blades of some simple steels is made, th ough.
John
One day, if I can convince you, I'll get a larger version of The Soldier's Knife from you, Shane. I'm certain it will be both more attractive and more useful for outdoor activities like camping than Cloud Cutter, and I bet you won't charge me more than 1/3 of the price.
The point about the capability for larger blades of some simple steels is made, th ough.
John
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- Sep 11, 2002
- Messages
- 3,548
I don't know me no science, but I do have a big chopper by Tai Goo, about the size of the Cherokee Rose, and it sure does like to chop...
Shane - I didn't say all bladesmiths, but rather many. I didn't say that you can't treat other steels to work well, but just that there are smiths who like lower carbon content for large blades like swords.
My comments were about big blades, and there is obviously a grey area about what makes for "big." I thought that a 16" blade is a big knife, but not a sword. A 20" blade, like in a gladius, is a small sword.
I am certainly no expert, but I would bet that there aren't a lot of sword makers using 1095 for swords with 30" blades.
I could be wrong....I have been before.
If you were making a sword - what would you use?
My comments were about big blades, and there is obviously a grey area about what makes for "big." I thought that a 16" blade is a big knife, but not a sword. A 20" blade, like in a gladius, is a small sword.
I am certainly no expert, but I would bet that there aren't a lot of sword makers using 1095 for swords with 30" blades.
I could be wrong....I have been before.
If you were making a sword - what would you use?
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- Oct 18, 2001
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- 20,978
1095 does get used in cutting competitions quite a bit....
But I think Fogg chose 1095 for it's ability to show a quench line, not because it's the best sword steel. Though it will certainly take and keep a good edge.
But I think Fogg chose 1095 for it's ability to show a quench line, not because it's the best sword steel. Though it will certainly take and keep a good edge.
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Too many technical details, I just stick 'em to a grinder and see how they spark. Got an old file a friend gave me the other day. Stuck it on the grinder, and it was spitting them puny sparks that scream "low carbon". Sure enough, I was able to bend that file nearly double before it snapped. Case hardened mild steel, watch out for that stuff.
Sarge
Sarge
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- May 12, 2003
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Arty,
You're prolly right...
I have forged swords...and a few big blades. I have used 5160 and 52100. Because it is readily available and cheap....and it is what I had. AND it is relatively "stupid proof" when turned into a blade.
I know there is better steel out there...it just happens that I couldn't afford it...and am not smart enought to bloom some of my own out of black sand...like some of these other gorgeous bastards!
John,
It will be my pleasure to do a honking version of the Soldier's Knife for you!
Only let me get my next born child here safely...and things get settled down before I take a whack at it! (No PUN!) You cut anything with that knife yet?
Mr. Bad Example,
Tai is a master. And that knife in hikot is beautiful...The Bush Bowie series is one of my favorite knife styles..and someday...maybe I will own one...I think Tai uses all 10XX series steels...
Dan,
You're prolly right too...but I think if Don and Jimmy weren't confident 1095 would hold up...they wouldn't offer it as a tactical blade...Those guys are the real deal!
Sarge, Spark test is good...spark test is wise!
It is a bear when you spend the time to forge a blade out then grind it..and the HT...only to find it is a soft as butter...That's what happens when you listen to "hexperts" and don't use your brain...good advice!
Shane
You're prolly right...
I have forged swords...and a few big blades. I have used 5160 and 52100. Because it is readily available and cheap....and it is what I had. AND it is relatively "stupid proof" when turned into a blade.
I know there is better steel out there...it just happens that I couldn't afford it...and am not smart enought to bloom some of my own out of black sand...like some of these other gorgeous bastards!
John,
It will be my pleasure to do a honking version of the Soldier's Knife for you!
Only let me get my next born child here safely...and things get settled down before I take a whack at it! (No PUN!) You cut anything with that knife yet?
Mr. Bad Example,
Tai is a master. And that knife in hikot is beautiful...The Bush Bowie series is one of my favorite knife styles..and someday...maybe I will own one...I think Tai uses all 10XX series steels...
Dan,
You're prolly right too...but I think if Don and Jimmy weren't confident 1095 would hold up...they wouldn't offer it as a tactical blade...Those guys are the real deal!
Sarge, Spark test is good...spark test is wise!
It is a bear when you spend the time to forge a blade out then grind it..and the HT...only to find it is a soft as butter...That's what happens when you listen to "hexperts" and don't use your brain...good advice!
Shane