What's the deal with the Leek's edge?

[JediKnight86]

I have a Titanium leek and a Rainbow Leek and both are sharp, but have what seems wide edges. It's very difficult to cut on an angle with these things. Do I need to break out the coarse rods on 30 degree back bevel with the Sharpmaker?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I am not sure what you mean by cut on an angle, but in general yes, if the cutting ability is too low then you have to reduce the cross section of the knife. Your best option in most cases is to regrind the primary, but that either takes insane amounts of patience with benchstones (Thom) or power equipment. Thus by default you lower the edge angles. Depending on what and how you are cutting you may also want to lower the grit as the edge finish on most production knives is far too high for optimal slicing performance.

-Cliff

 

[kel_aa]

Cliff, your acts of sedition will no longer be tolerated. The manufacture does what it does and what the manufacture does must be the optimal and so the knife in the present state must be optimal for the consumer and any suggestion otherwise makes no sense.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Cliff, your acts of sedition will no longer be tolerated.

I am agnostic, by defination I can't have an act of sedition as I reject the idea of a authority not based on facts and logic - unless it is embodied so as to have a striking resemblence to Catherine Zeta Jones.

The manufacture does what it does and what the manufacture does must be the optimal and so the knife in the present state must be optimal for the consumer and any suggestion otherwise makes no sense.

And when two manufacturers make a product for the exact same intended role but the characteristics are different ... they are both optimal just for alternate realities?

That is a good point, it explains why everyone has optimal steels/grinds/heat treatment but none of them are the same. I have been just thinking about this reality, now it all makes sense.

-Cliff

 

[hardheart]

 

[gunmike1]

I love this thread! kel aa, Cliff, and hardheart just made me spit my drink all over the key board!


To the original question. You need an extra coarse benchstone to thin the edge angles under 15 degrees per side, then your sharpmaker will work like a charm. You will be spending hours thinning the angles with your sharpmaker, take it from someone that has done it. Once your angles are more acute than the sharpmaker it works incredibly well.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

You need an extra coarse benchstone to thin the edge angles under 15 degrees per side, then your sharpmaker will work like a charm.

If you care a little less about cosmetics (which probably isn't the case considering those knives) you can use a large bastard file on that class of stainless well (assuming it is 440A or similar) because they are usually significantly underhardened and thus readily filed.

On the smaller folders, heavy file pressure can damage the pivot so it takes some care but it will allow you to rip the primary edge grind down almost instantly. I generally bring the edge into the main grind when filing but that will scratch them significantly.

Yeah, and as a side note, come on, if she was the Dark Ops rep would people still be all fired up or would it be more like "Really, delamination ... cool ... do you take checks ... what can I get for the deed of my house?"

-Cliff

 

[gunmike1]

If you care a little less about cosmetics (which probably isn't the case considering those knives) you can use a large bastard file on that class of stainless well (assuming it is 440A or similar) because they are usually significantly underhardened and thus readily filed.

-Cliff

I have to put an edge on my Grandfather's WW2 era Kabar, I was thinking of using my bastard file to thin it out so I can put an edge on it. From what I heard DMT stones don't much like soft steels, do you think the bastard file would be the best choice for thinning it out (I don't have a belt sander yet, unfortunately)?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

... do you think the bastard file would be the best choice for thinning it out

Easily, they are much faster than even the best coarse hone. You really need a vice to use them at maximum efficiency as otherwise it is both awkward and fatiguing as files do tend to require more force than stones.

-Cliff

 

[Dog of War]

Once the loyal and faithful have decided you're part of some seditious movement, they'll never listen to your explanations.

In fact I think this is how the files we use came to be called bastard files.

 

[gunmike1]

Easily, they are much faster than even the best coarse hone. You really need a vice to use them at maximum efficiency as otherwise it is both awkward and fatiguing as files do tend to require more force than stones.

-Cliff

I do have a good vice to use, now I need to decide what profile to put on it. I'll figure it out as I go, I guess, but it is a really thick grind. With it's sentimental value I don't think I'll go crazy on it, but I can't justify anything over 40 degree included.

Edit to add: I apologize in advance to Kabar for modifying their optimal profile. Sometimes I just have to defy authority. It must be this ruffian crowd that I've been talking with lately, they are a bad influence.

 

[JediKnight86]

Well what I was trying to get at, hijackers, was whether or not other Kershaw Leek owners have noticed the same thing. I think I met at least one person who said so, but I'm looking for confirmation and possible specific solution on the forum.

 

[hardheart]

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3912489&postcount=103

use the search and you don't have to worry about hijackers

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Once the loyal and faithful have decided you're part of some seditious movement, they'll never listen to your explanations.

I am a advocate of personal freedom, I would never contend someone didn't have the choice to be ignorant. The most I would argue is that information should be available to those who wish to be enlightened. Ideally presented in a duality of heavy contention.

It must be this ruffian crowd that I've been talking with lately, they are a bad influence.

Yeah, I don't know how many times I had to attend guest lectures from recovering free thinkers. You can't talke to those guys at all "I CHALLANGE YOUR PRESUPPOSITIONS!" Calm down guy, I just wanted to know if you had change for a ten.

I'm looking for confirmation and possible specific solution on the forum.

The solution to a knife which doesn't cut well is to :

-resharpen it and remove the rounded edge, possibly lower grit)
-make the edge more acute
-make the primary more acute)

in order of increasing difficulty, so you start at the top and work down. You are basically making a knife at step three so few people do it.

Edge angles vary on all production knives, sometimes a great deal, sometimes the edge is uneven in angle and width, many times the primary grind is uneven as well.

A file or coarse stone will solve any of those issues with extreme prejudice. Buy a bastard file and 200 grit silicon carbide waterstone and all obtuse angles will tremble before you.

The standard 440A leek is hollow ground (Concave) and is .018"-.021" before sharpening.

That is pretty silly.

The ZDP Leek was Flat ground and was .022"-.025" before sharpening.

Thats even sillier. That is where I set the edge on the parangs I intend for rougher wood work.

-Cliff

 

[a223cat]

I am agnostic, by defination I can't have an act of sedition as I reject the idea of a authority not based on facts and logic - unless it is embodied so as to have a striking resemblence to Catherine Zeta Jones.



And when two manufacturers make a product for the exact same intended role but the characteristics are different ... they are both optimal just for alternate realities?

That is a good point, it explains why everyone has optimal steels/grinds/heat treatment but none of them are the same. I have been just thinking about this reality, now it all makes sense.

-Cliff

holy cow. I actually understood and agreed with Mr Stamp ! I shoulda got that flu shot!