What's the future for Ball Bearing Lock knives?

peacefuljeffrey

peacefuljeffrey

Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
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So far there are what, two BBL knives from Spyderco, the D'Allara (two versions) and the Dodo...

What other knives are planned, and what are their designs going to be like? Are there ever going to be Delica V's or something? Or a Drop Point Dodo? A BBL MILITARY, perhaps?

I am hoping that Sal has plans for some $40-80 knives that employ FRN handle scales, disassemblability, a drop point, and the wonderful Ball Bearing Lock...

Is there any word about what future models of BBL knives are coming down the pike in the next 6 months to a year or so?


-Jeffrey
 
The Pikal will be a ball bearing lock.

Can't think of any others off the top of my head though...:confused:
 
I see two issues with the ball lock. The first is that the ball, being smooth and round, is difficult to grasp with cold, wet, greasy or numb hands and virtually impossible to grasp with gloves. This can make closing the knife difficult or impossible under adverse conditions. The upcoming Pikal seems to address this with the added "wings" on the ball. Have never handled one with that feature, so cannot comment on whether they solve the problem or not.

The other is the vulnerability of the exposed coil spring to dirt and debris. I wonder if Spyderco has considered replacing the follower that fits inside the spring with an external "cap" type follower over the outside of it. That would offer less opportunity for dirt to enter the spring cavity.
 
I'm totally satisfied so far my DDP. I wish the Native 4 ;) would have a ball bearing lock... :D
 
I've tested multiple models with BBLs in gloves and without, and they've worked really well. They're not as easy to use as the axis, but on the same token, the SD guys have been complaining that the axis could be disarmed in a struggle, or maybe even accidentally (I don't this would actually ever happen) disengaged....so difficulty to unlock is a bit of a double edged sword in the case of the bbl...

Personally, I think both the dodo and d`allara have fine BBLs, very much easy enough to use, and I have it down to where I can close them touching just one side of the lock (I don't have to pinch the bb between two fingers). It does take some practice though, unfortunately.
 
I also like the BBL and would welcome future Spydies that used them. The Dodo locks up solidly, and after a few days the opening/closing becomes second nature. I think it's a great innovation in locking mechanisms.
 
The P'kal version of the BB lock is the next generation. the "ball holder" permits a smaller ball which permits a narrower model as well as making it more user friendly to unlock, ('bout the same as the Axis, Arc or Rolling lock).

The "ball holder" is being refined in the P'kal model. Should be out late summer. Once we've got some "real world" useage on the "ball holder", we'll begin adding the lock to any model the market wants. If it will fit into the P'kal, it will fit into anything.

sal
 
It's my favorite Spyderco lock right after the super heavy duty lock back on the Manix and Chinook. The BB lock sells me with how I can see it working, and the lock up is rock solid and secure.
 
Sal_
I will happily agreed to T&E any protos with the new lock system. I own & use the D'Allara and the Dodo, so confidence in the lock isn't a problem.
Brian
 
The Deacon said:
The other is the vulnerability of the exposed coil spring to dirt and debris. I wonder if Spyderco has considered replacing the follower that fits inside the spring with an external "cap" type follower over the outside of it. That would offer less opportunity for dirt to enter the spring cavity.
Click to expand...

Valid points. I don't typically have to use a knife in adverse weather/grime conditions, so that does not concern me greatly.

I have been thinking lately that it's time for someone to come up with some sort of easily replaceable, though long-life, silicone or polymer insert to replace the springs that drive many knife locks.

I'm talking about a little bumper in there where the spring normally goes; one that could withstand as many thousands of compressions as the conventional spring can. Something like this for either a ball-bearing lock or an axis lock, to relieve us all of the worry that the spring(s) will fail and leave us with a non-functioning or poorly functioning knife.

Do your concerns about dirt getting into the BBL spring not extend also to dirt getting into the area that houses an Axis lock's omega spring?


-Jeffrey
 
I'd love to see a BBL military, and it would definitely make my list...however, the BBL is a pretty huge redesign of a knife. Using a different genre of lock (unlike say, cross locks, like liner lock to framelock redesigns), I imagine, would entail a mostly new knife.

In any case, yeah, I'd buy it.

In regards to the exposed spring, I actually like it...I don't think anything is going to get caught in it (hasn't happened to me so far), but what I think is positive is that it's exposed to the air and visible...occasionally, the omega springs on benchmades rust, but this is a lot less likely to happen with an easy to clean and monitor the springs.

I tend to believe that the bb's spring design is better than Benchmades.
 
I agree with Artfully; the exposed spring is a benefit. It's readily accessible for cleaning. If the spring were encased in some sort of sheathing, there'd be no way to know if any debris or moisture got in there, nor would it be a simple task to clean it.
 
puukkoman said:
I agree with Artfully; the exposed spring is a benefit. It's readily accessible for cleaning. If the spring were encased in some sort of sheathing, there'd be no way to know if any debris or moisture got in there, nor would it be a simple task to clean it.
Click to expand...


I thought the point was that it would be captive and sheathed, so that things wouldn't get in there... (Moisture would be a trouble issue though, I guess.)

Still what about my idea of using a bumper made of an elastic, utterly corrosion-resistant and unbreakable material for the lock to push against?? I've been imagining a little captive Tic-Tac-shaped insert made of a high-density silicone, inserted behind the ball bearing where the spring/piston currently sits. No spring, no metal, no worry about how long it'll last or whether it'll rust or fail in any way...

I would love to hear from Sal about the potential to use such an idea.


-Jeffrey
 
Hi Jeffrey,

I'd really like to see some specs. You probably know more about it than I do. We did some testing a while back with synthetic no metal springs (plastic) and found that life was shorter than metal and some were affected by chemicals which took the spring our them.

What type of material did you have in mind that would do this?

sal
 
Artfully Martial said:
I've tested multiple models with BBLs in gloves and without, and they've worked really well. They're not as easy to use as the axis, but on the same token, the SD guys have been complaining that the axis could be disarmed in a struggle, or maybe even accidentally (I don't this would actually ever happen) disengaged....so difficulty to unlock is a bit of a double edged sword in the case of the bbl...

Personally, I think both the dodo and d`allara have fine BBLs, very much easy enough to use, and I have it down to where I can close them touching just one side of the lock (I don't have to pinch the bb between two fingers). It does take some practice though, unfortunately.
Click to expand...

This is exactly true. I even tested my Dodo this winter with gloves. Works fine, just takes a little longer to disengage. All you guys who can't close the lock must have some serious ham-hands.

I'm going to reiterate that one of the chief strenghts of the Dodo, D'Allara, and Poliwog BBLs are that they are nigh-impossible to disengage accidentally. This is not the case for axis locks, and does not appear to hold true for the new P'Kal knife. But in the case of the latter, it is necessary to fit the lock, from what I understand.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Jeffrey,

I'd really like to see some specs. You probably know more about it than I do. We did some testing a while back with synthetic no metal springs (plastic) and found that life was shorter than metal and some were affected by chemicals which took the spring our them.

What type of material did you have in mind that would do this?

sal
Click to expand...


Sal, I'm sorry to get your hopes up -- I am not the guy to talk to about the materials and so unfortunately I do not know more about it than you do... I'm just the dreamer, not the guy with the answer. :o

I was just envisioning something that would look like a plug made of silicone, sitting there behind -- or maybe enveloping -- the piston plunger on a ball-bearing lock knife, taking the place of the spring.

I had a mountain bicycle some years ago that had "elastomer" front shock absorbers. I never saw them -- they were inside the forks -- but I was told that it was a polymer material that absorbed shock via compression. Who knows what they were made of. (They did, in time, stop demonstrating their compression/expansion properties. In short, they wore out.)

There just has to be something out there, either developed already or waiting to be whipped-up, that would be resilient and yet resistant to corrosion/chemicals, that would be ideal for this application. And we're talking about a tiny little plug, which means it would be cheap and easy to replace (at least in my imagining. If it would wear out in time, I would think of selling the knife with several replacements "just in case."


I am sorry, I am not a materials engineer. I also have no connections with people I could run this idea by. This was just something I found myself wishing "someone" would come up with. I'm glad to read that you've at least tinkered with the idea. I can't think of anyone I'd want to do it more than I would want Spyderco to do it.


-Jeffrey
 
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