What's the record for rookie mistakes and can I save this?

B

Brad McHatton

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Aug 7, 2020
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Full disclosure, this is my first attempt and I've been lurking here for a little while. I've only posted once about a burner issue and Stacey set me straight (thank you again for that! )
So, I wanted to make a knife and saw something that said 1095 was a good start for first time stock removal and bought a blank (first of many mistakes). Profiled with a grinder using a DCKnives design for a bushcraft blade. Beveled with a Gough jig and thought i was ready for HT.

My friend who is a welder helped me make a forge that I can't thank him enough for. "Heat treated" the blade last weekend and thought I'd done it right. Brought it up to nonmetallic and then put it back in for a few seconds. Quenched in room temperature canola oil (second mistake).

Got rid of the scale and sanded it down to 1000 grit. Then my dumb*** decided to try the file test and it certainly didn't "skate" across the steel.

Now I'm left with a blade that is shaped, beveled, and sanded but I'm pretty sure isn't heat treated or hard enough. I've got cocobolo scales rough shaped with the fronts finished to 1000 grit.

My question is, can I save this without sending it out for HT? I'll probably use Peter's for other blades but I'm really wanting to do this myself for the first time. Any and all advice or criticism is appreciated. At this point I may just finish this one for practice and point to it in a few years as my first attempt. Thanks in advance. Btw, I've got 2 1084 blanks now for my next endeavor.
 
You can absolutely heat treat it again. Assuming you still have some thickness behind the edge, warping likely shouldn’t be an issue. You want to do the file test before tempering, that way you’ll check it at peak hardness.
 
Before you redo it, how much does the file bite in? After tempering it will be softer and a file will bite a bit more.

1095 is not the best steel for your type of HT. It requires close temperature control and a soak time of five to ten minutes to get everything ready for the quench. That is pretty hard to do accurately in a forge.

Canola oil will work OK, but should be at 120°F. You want at least a gallon of it in a tank that is 4" or wider. A 4" pipe 24" long holds a gallon with a safe amount of tank above the liquid.

1084, 1080, 1075, 5160, 8670, and similar steels all would be better choices for a forge HT.
 
Thank you both gentlemen. I won't be messing with 1095 again until I have more experience. I really didn't even think about the file test until after tempering. You both nailed that.
I think I'll do it again just to make sure. I'll be sure to heat up the oil this time. My current quench tank holds a gallon with room to spare but I will be moving to a vertical one of the size you mentioned Stacey.
Again, thank you very much for your input and take care.
 
Why not try if it holds an edge first? A test etch might also show you if you have soft spots in the blade.
 
This is why I enjoy the forum. I never thought about trying to keep an edge and have no idea how to etch test but I'll do a quick search and figure it out. Thank you!
 
I am a rookie myself, but it's a steep learning curve. Sharpe the knife, test the tip by sticking it some wood and twisting it out, hack some 2x4, smack it in some brass rod, do the brass rod test on the edge. Take a known hardened knife to compare. As hard as it is you can write the first blade temporarily off and revisit it later down the road. Etch in ferric chlorid showed me that the first two knifes I hardened remained soft at the tip. Good luck!
 
Thanks again Fredy. You're right about the learning curve but the skills gained ought to be worth. You guys on here help a lot with that too! I'll try everything you mentioned and let you know what happens. Really can't tell you how much I appreciate it.
 
Whats the thickness behind the edge? If you do want to try heat treating again you can take the edge back a bit to get a little more thickness for stability in heat treating.

Like others said, put an edge on and see how it performs first. It is possible you didn't get through the decarb when cleaning it up and thats why the file bit. It may be better on the edge. Do you see any trace of a hamon line?
 
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Hey Scott, thanks for the input. I'm not sure exactly where to measure behind the edge. How far up?
I'm definitely going to try what everyone else said first now.
Couple of questions. First, what is the decade? Second, I've seen the word hamon on here but honestly don't know what I'm looking for? What would I be looking for?
Thanks again man. I really appreciate your help!
 
Brad McHatton said:
Couple of questions. First, what is the decade?
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Im guessing he meant decarb or decarburization. You "got rid of the scale" but under that there is a layer of steel that , because of the oxygen in the oven, has lost some carbon and is soft. You need to grind away the decarb steel and it is probably hard steel under it. Most is the time when you read a thread where the blade is soft after heat treating, they have a hard blade, the problem is most of the time they havnt removed the decarb.
 
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I meant decarb. I corrected above. Auto correct got me again.

Spalted explained it very well. By sharpening the knife, you should get through any decarb. A brass rod test will likely tell you if its too soft. Just be aware that if the edge is too beefy, it can trick the brass rod test just by virtue of edge geometry. If you see little dimples on the edge after doing the brass rod test you know you are too soft. Grind the edge back a bit and retreat.

 
Got it. You guys are great! I'll be back to work on it this weekend and I'll do everything suggested here. Hopefully I can report good news after. Thanks again everyone!
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Before you redo it, how much does the file bite in? After tempering it will be softer and a file will bite a bit more.

1095 is not the best steel for your type of HT. It requires close temperature control and a soak time of five to ten minutes to get everything ready for the quench. That is pretty hard to do accurately in a forge.

Canola oil will work OK, but should be at 120°F. You want at least a gallon of it in a tank that is 4" or wider. A 4" pipe 24" long holds a gallon with a safe amount of tank above the liquid.

1084, 1080, 1075, 5160, 8670, and similar steels all would be better choices for a forge HT.
Click to expand...
I have wondered about this for awhile now. If you don't soak 1095 does it give the performance of 1084 or is it less?
 
It would be similar to 1080. The excess above the eutectoid would no get into solution properly. It will work, but will not be the full potential.
 
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