What's the secret to sharpening a knife?

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Jan 27, 2006
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My father used to use a dry Arkansas soft stone to keep his Case Stockman sharp enough to shave. And I am talking literally. He tested the blade by shaving his arm hair.

I have never been able to duplicate that even though he tried to teach me.

Dad has been dead twenty years in May so I no longer have that source of info.

What is the secret?

He ocassionally used a drop or two of 3M sewing machine oil, but that was IT.
 
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There are coarse stones and fine stones, wet and dry, and jigs that allow you to set any or many angles, depending on the durability vs. sharpness you want on the edge.

Most of us who use the Spyderco Sharpmaker find we can get an excellent edge without much trouble, consistently. It is especially good for maintenance of an edge, but will take some time to repair a badly dulled blade.

Once I quickly learned to use the Sharpmaker effectively, I found I understood what happens when I'm sharpening so better, that I can now touch up a blade with a simple piece of ceramic, like the Spyderco Double Stuff or a Gatco Tri-Seps.
 
Yep. Hold the knife at the exact same angle all the time, and sharpen both sides equally. Having the proper grit stone is critical to getting a very sharp edge too.

When (if) you get tired of messing with novaculite, you should try a modern sharpener like the Spyderco Sharpmaker. Much easier to use than Arkansas stones, includes an instruction video, and gets a blade sharp with minimal effort.

The real sharpening pros will use a leather strop for the finishing touches. I've also heard of a bench grinder with a paper wheel that can get a blade incredibly sharp.

Best Wishes,
Bob
 
As a guy that's been around the block a few times, I'm often asked by my soldiers to sharpen their knives. Over the past 15 or so years, I've had 3-4 that were interested in learning how to sharpen them. Each one, I've provided them with lots of different options as to how a knife can be sharpened(from a smooth rock to the latest in diamonds and ceramics).

The one thing I've always told them, just as my dad told me. Practice, and when you've found a technique that works for you, then stick with it.
 
I'll disagree with most. Don't get hung up on holding a consistant angle. I think the biggest trick to sharpening is don't hurry and keep grinding on your coarsest hone. It takes some time and you need to grind all the way to the tip of the edge. Don't raise the spine/angle up too much and sharpen both sides equally.
 
Learn to identify the 'burr' or wire edge.

Learn to form one.

Learn to remove it.
 
db said:
I'll disagree with most. Don't get hung up on holding a consistant angle.

Huh? :confused: I'm sincerely interested in why you don't think a constant grinding angle is essential. Without a constant grinding angle you just keep regrinding a new edge, instead of sharpening the edge that you made on your last pass. In essence you're starting from scratch with each pass you make.
 
Do you want to know the secret to sharpening?

Here it is....

ready?

There are 2 secrets to sharpening.

SHAPE and FINISH

The shape of the edge (geometry question) and the finish of the edge (rougher or finer grit used at the last stage) determines how your knife will cut.

NEVER MIND any talk about x strokes this side, then flip and do this and that and you can split hairs. You need to understand what is going on when sharpening, so that you can use any gear you need and any technique you think will help to get the job done.

Sharpening is also about practice. I'd recommend the following to help you learn about sharpening.

Not knowing what gear you have, if you really want to learn how to sharpen a knife I'd recommend you get a coarse stone, or a coarse/fine combo stone from a store. Don't spend too much money! I have seen Norton brand stones in Walmart in the US for around $10. Something like that is perfect. Now, get yourself a ceramic stick set-up like the Sharpmaker from Spyderco. You do not have to get a Sharpmaker!! I think it is a great piece of gear, but it is a lot of money to spend if you are learning. Around here I can get a simple set-up that includes a wooden base and 2 ceramic rods that fit into the base in a V shape. That simple set-up is under $20 Canadian. You also need a knife. If you don't have a knife to practice on, I'd recommend a Frosts Mora knife (check camping stores). Get the carbon steel model, it should be around $8.


OK, now you have your knife and you have to ask yourself what you want to do with it. Do you want to slice rope all day, or make it a general camp tool? We'll say you want to make your Frosts Mora into a camp tool, to do a lot of wood work while camping. So then as far as shape goes, you want a thin V or convex profile, and for the finish you want a finer finish to help with push cutting wood.

Generally speaking, if you want to slice with your knife, you need a coarser finish. If you want to push cut with your knife, you need a finer finish. Generally, for harder materials you need a thicker edge, for finer materials you want a thinner edge. Shape and finish is what its about!

OK, back to the Mora. Now, it probably come sharp, but ignore that. In fact, I would recommend slicing with the edge into the edge of the coarse stone to get rid of the edge!!!

What you'll end up doing in this sharpenign tutorial then is setting up a micro-bevel. A microbevel is a small, very very small bevel on the bery edge of the knife. If you want to shape the edge to, say, 40 degrees, you don't need to sharpen the whole thing to 40 degrees. You will get better performance, and have an easier time sharpening, if you thin the whole edge bevel to, say 30 degrees and then set a micro-bevel at 40 degrees. The thinner main edge helps the knife penetrate what you are cutting (shape) and the micro-bevel will do the actual cutting. The microbevel is easy to set, fast to set, easy to make it nice and even, and fast to touch-up.)

DB was right when he said to keep the sharpening even. So do whatever you need to sharpen the knife, just keep things even. Lets assume then that you have, for arguments sake, a Spyderco Sharpmaker (again, NOT necessary, but I do recommend it.) The sharpmaker lets you set the stones in at 40 degrees and 30 degrees. For your Frosts Mora camp knife, lets use the 40 degree setting for the micro-bevel. That means you need to sharpen the main edge bevel at less than 40 degrees. Lets go with 30 degrees. What is 30 degrees? Eh, hard to say. One way to check is to mark your knife edge with a magic marker, and then take some strokes on the sharpmaker with the 40 degree setting (or whatever microbevel system you get.) Where the marker is removed is an indication of what a 40 degree angle setting is. Now when you lay your knife on the coarse stone you got and take a a few strokes, look at the very edge again, you should have removed material ABOVE that 40 degree angle indication line you made with the sharpmaker. You'll learn pretty quickly what is thinner or thicker than whatever microbevel you want to set.

So go ahead and start thinning your main edge bevel. Take slices, do circles, whatever. Just alternate sides regularly to keep things even. I do exactly the same thing with my belt sander when I am making a knife and formign the primary grinds or setting the edges! Its all about shape and finish.

I like to do small circles just because it goes faster for me. Once you get close to getting right to the edge, things will change a bit. How do you know you are at this stage? Well, you will with experience! But two ways to know are either you can constantly check for burr formation, or look at your magic marker line. As you thin otu the bevel, that magic marker will be disappearing closer and closer to te very edge. Once the marker is gone from the very edge (an dis now gone from the whole edge), you are proably done on that side. I recommend using both checks, and eventually you won't need the magic marker. So once youa re close to the edge on one side, just do strokes on that side until you form a burr. The burr is where tou have sharpened right to the very edge and now the very thin edge had flipped over to the opposite side of the knife you were sharpening on. To check for the burr gently drad your fingers perpendicular to the edge, from the spine of the knife past the edge (spine down), and feel the burr catch or drag on your finger. I hope this part is very clear. you are not slicing your finger alogn the edge! You are dragging your fingers very lightly not lengthwise along the knife, but widthwise. And you just want to feel the burr drag on your finger.

Once you have a good burr (not a slight one) along all of the edge, you will flipthe knife over and do strokes or circles until you have a burr on the opposite side of the knife again. If there are parts of the knife that don't have a burr yet, concentrate on those parts before flipping the knife over. You need a nice burr alogn the whole edge. When you flip the knife over to set a burr on the other side, it will go quick! Repeat doing what you did before, setting a nice even burr ont he whole edge.


Now you have thinned the edge! If you have a coarse/fine stone, you can then use the fine side on your newly formed edge bevel. Since the edge bevel has now been thinned out, you won't be doign any more thinning (shaping). You will be changing the finish. Think about this again. Once you have set your main edge bevel at 30 degrees, the hard work is over! So any more work at the 30 degree setting will be changing the finish. Also, since you have already removed the steel at the edge to make a 30 degree setting, when working on the fine stone you'll find things go quick again.

Why go with the fine finish on the primary edge bevel? It will help with 2 things. A lot of how an edge works is what the steel is like behind the very edge. If you polish this part, it will make cutting smoother, as you have a nice smooth surface penetrating what you are cutting. Also, it helps prepare things for your micro-bevel setting tool. This is especially important if you don't use a sharpmaker. The sharpmaker has coarser and finer stones, so you could probably, without much trouble, go from the coarse bench stone t the coarse ceramics and then the fine ceramics of the Sharpmaker without difficulty. But going from a coarse bench stone finish to setting a microbevel with a fine ceramic is a bit of a jump. You can still do it, but it will just take more time.

After your coarse (or fine) stone work, having set the primary edge bevel to 30 degrees, I like to do a few alternating strokes, still at the 30 degree angle, just to align the burr. This just makes setting the micro-bevel easier I find.

OK, set up your micro-bevel system. Usually all you do is hold your knife between the V sticks and take slices. Do alternating slices and do 20 or so per side.

VOILA!

You don't need much work on the micro-bevel setting device because you have thinned the primary edge out so nicely already. The microbevel will go on so easy and fast you will be surprised.

Go ahead and slice some paper and check your edge out! If it drags at spots, do some more work on your micro-bevel setting device. If you have a strop, go ahead and strop the knife edge as well and enjoy that finish!

I hope this helps. I bet you know a lot of this information already, and you probably have your own sharpening gear. Just remember it is the information and principles that matter; adapt them to you and your gear.

As I said, I have a belt sander that I use to make knives with and sharpen knives on. I do exactly as I typed herw with that gear. I set my mai edge bevels with my belts and set micro-edge bevels with my sharpmaker.

Sometimes I do different things, sich as setting convex bevels and stropping off the burr. But here the principles are the same: I set the shape I want and then the finish.

If you can thin an edge out and put on a microbevel, the rest of sharpening will come easy.

Good luck, I hope this helps!
 
Cosine take a look at this thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=387666
A consistant angle just isn't very imporatant. Alot of people think the reason they don't get a sharp edge is because they cann't hold an angle. I say thats wrong the main reason most cann't sharpen is they don't do enough grinding and get down to the very edge tip. Or if they do happen to hit theedge tip it is because they have raised the spine up and put a way too thick edge on. Keep that spine down and grind away on both sides.
 
The Sharpmaker is good, provided you have something else to do an initial profiling (ie, regrind a new edge on a seriously dull knife, or create a new edge where the angles match those of the Sharpmaker).

Personally, I favor the EdgePro - it's a bit spendy compared to the Sharpmaker, but it far surpasses it in being able to profile and sharpen. It's truly worth the money.
 
There are NO secrets to sharpening!

Thin the edge out to where it will cut. Why paper cuts, it's thin.

How you get thin is wide open. From free hand on stones, to guided systems, to rests, to powered systems.

The good starting point in reading http://forums.egullet.com/index.php?showtopic=26036

Check out Steve Bottoroff's site Sharpening Made Easy

There a lot of people more than willing to help you once you get started in here. A lot of diverse opionions as well. But it can be an interesting place.
 
Crayola,

That was super helpful. Thank you so much for such a great post!

Really, Thanks!!!! :thumbup:
 
You know what would be really helpful, though maybe a little time consuming? A video on how to sharpen freehand by someone who takes a common sense approach like db and Crayola (to name just two members). There are a ton of folks here who sharpen freehand using inexpensive bench stones. I honestly believe that if folks were able to have someone show them with moving pictures (or in person) they would be able to do this in a short amount of time. Something real basic, just like you would show a son or daughter how to do it.

Like QuietOned said, the secret to knife sharpening is, there is no secret. It simply takes some very basic hand eye coordination, simple techniques, patience and practice and you don't need to break the bank with equipment either.

Though I sharpen freehand, I would not feel comfortable making a video like this as my skills are ok and I'm still working on them. Aside from the fact I do not own the necessary video equipment. I know, it's kind of crappy make a suggestion like this and not be able to do it and I do apologize for that.
 
If you want the basics of freehand sharpening.. the video by Razor Edge http://www.razoredgesystems.com has good info on freehand sharpening. Although Razor Edge uses a clamp (which is great for learning BTW), the basic principles are the same, and their initial "relief grind" is done w/o the clamp. It is probably the best video that explains relief grinding, primary and secondary bevels.

The video by Murray Carter shows totally freehand sharpening. He even demonstrates sharpening on a brick.
 
yam said:
You know what would be really helpful, though maybe a little time consuming? A video on how to sharpen freehand by someone who takes a common sense approach....
I agreee totally on that. What I've been looking for for a long time is a short, 5 minutes or less, video or compressed video but with decent resolution, that could be posted, that people new to sharpening could view, could be downloaded, shared and passed around. File size would still be large but the clarity has to be good enough to really see.

I've found a few that I consider good but they are copyrighted and the owners won't give permission to do it. I won't post others' materials without their permission. What I can do myself with a tripod and video camera wouldn't be worth posting. The single fixed angle isn't really what's needed, need decent video work. This would be a huge benefit to those just getting started in sharpening. I still find it a bit odd that one of the stone manufacturers or dealers hasn't done it, Shapton, Norton, etc. would definitely raise peoples interest in their products.
 
QuietOned said:
I agreee totally on that. What I've been looking for for a long time is a short, 5 minutes or less, video or compressed video but with decent resolution, that could be posted, that people new to sharpening could view, could be downloaded, shared and passed around. File size would still be large but the clarity has to be good enough to really see.

I've found a few that I consider good but they are copyrighted and the owners won't give permission to do it. I won't post others' materials without their permission. What I can do myself with a tripod and video camera wouldn't be worth posting. The single fixed angle isn't really what's needed, need decent video work. This would be a huge benefit to those just getting started in sharpening. I still find it a bit odd that one of the stone manufacturers or dealers hasn't done it, Shapton, Norton, etc. would definitely raise peoples interest in their products.

Yeah, something basic and simple. cbwx34 does mention a couple video's, but you have to pay to play so to speak. It would also be nice to have one from someone not trying to sell people something. Just a regular person showing folks how they sharpen a knife. I honestly believe, that if you can eyeball a 45 degree angle, then you can eyeball half of that which is 22.5 degrees. Lower it a little more and you're right in the ballpark of a usable angle. Then it becomes a repetitive motion either circular or a simple push/swipe type motion with moderate pressure to remove material fairly equally on both sides.

My grandfather wasn't all that hung up on exact angles and his knives came out really sharp. Don't make it too thin or it'll roll the edge, don't make it too steep or it'll be like plowing rather than cutting. Make it sharp and get on with things. He also wasn't caught up in cosmetics either, they were cutting tools. Use them, keep them clean, keep them oiled, keep them sharp.
 
Well, I would be able to do a low quality video with a regular camera, but how would I host it. Even low quality would be a kind of big file?
 
db said:
A consistant angle just isn't very imporatant.

Using an edge pro (or whatever), set the edge at 16 degrees with a coarse stone. Now set the edge at 14 degrees and switch to a fine stone and see how long it takes to polish out the scratches of the coarse stone. Now raise the edge up to 18 degrees and finish it with an ultra-fine stone.

Use the knife and then see how long it takes to touch up the edge at 16 degrees with the ultra fine stone, or 14 if you really have some time. Now repeat all this and keep the angle guide at a constant 16 degrees for a comparison and see if you still feel that a consistent angle isn't very important.

The biggest difference is in resharpening. With a proper micro-bevel and guide, sharpening from dull (5-10%) to optimal can be less than 30 s because every stroke is focused on a tiny strip of metal so it is just shape, deburr and hone.

Freehanding with a much larger tolerance, then all the passes under the edge do nothing except provide relief. And if you greatly exceed it the micro-bevel on one side, then nothing does anything until you cut this new shoulder back off which will take a long time beause you are just using fine abrasives when resharpening usually.

Of course once you do anything for a long time then it becomes almost trivial and you don't need any guides because you naturally can hold a very tight pattern. You have a very low *systematic* deviation, a beginner can have a very large one, the small *random* ones don't matter.

But for a beginner the systematic ones turn something which should have taken 10 stokes to easily over a hundred, assuming they at some point will accidently hit the 1-2 deburring strokes in a row at the necessary angle, otherwise it takes a *lot* longer.

The biggest problems with sharpening is not using micro-bevels, poor steels for the type of knife (they either get too chipped/bent, too worn or too corroded), horrible edge bevels (too thick/obtuse) and not using appropiate stones or switching from coarse to fine before the knife is sharp. Joe noted years ago you can get a shaving edge with an x-coarse DMT.

-Cliff
 
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