What's with swedges?

[Valle]

Swedges.

I dislike them with a passion.

Lately I have been finding a lot of designs that I would enjoy, if not for a proud, unsharpened swedge on the blade. Not only do they serve no purpose to me, they actually diminish overall usefulness. It is plain that the same blade shape, with the spine at full thickness, would be much stronger. Swedges get in the way if you want to use the back of your hand or your thumb against the spine for harder push cuts. Tips are frailer. And in the off chance I need to baton my knife against wood, a tendency for the spine to embed itself in the baton would be the last thing I need.

The only reason I can fathom for their use is in strictly tactical knives. But I keep seeing them in designs that are anything but.

I have read somewhere that a swedge may be used to reduce the weight of the blade for balancing purposes, but I find that hard to believe. I imagine any sensible designer in search of better balance would alter the shape, size or composition of the handle before drastically reducing overall blade strength.

So, what is it with all these swedges?

 

[amg137]

Like you said, it's a tactical thing. They're very good at puncturing. They show up in a lot of non-tactical knives because "tacticool" sells. Also, a lot of people just like how they look and don't beat on their knives hard enough to care about any reduction in strength (myself included).

 

[Scurvy092]

Try opening a letter with your super thick spined knife.

While I agree that most swedges are put on to make knives look aggressive, let's not forget that they were designed for a very practical purpose.

 

[VVilliam]

They are good for scraping things when you don't want to dull your blade. Also, good for striking a fire steel against. A swedge doesn't have to take up the whole spine of the blade, there are plenty that only go 1/5 or 1/4 the way up. That leaves room for your thumb to press against, and a place to strike a baton against. Plus, there are people who actually like a fine, pointy tip. For detail work and such.

 

[Portman30-06]

I think your not fully aware of the purpose of a swedge or that if the knife is of any quality there is hardly any structural problems. Also they don't have to go to a pointed cross section so a partial swedge wouldn't be a problem batoning.

 

[zl1]

I like em
I need to get an Umnumzaan, thanks for the reminder.

 

[Joe Duder]

Yeah they really are useless. Unless you're out in the bush and need to bore a hole, take a splinter out, need an extra pointy tip for processing small game etc...

All of this can be done with a full tip, but try it with a swedge.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/503503-A-Brief-Study-On-Swedges

There are (many) others, and if you're actually curious, and not just venting about a feature you happen to dislike aesthetically, you may find the search function quite useful to answer your questions.

At the end of the day, nobody is forcing you to buy a swedged knife. Sometimes I like them, sometimes not. It's not as easy as you may think to balance a knife by changing the handle, and if you want to improve cutting ability, changing the handle doesn't do anything. There are good and valid reasons for using them, and many people actually like the aesthetics. Since you don't, there's an easy solution. Don't buy them. If you simply must have a design that currently has a swedge, I'm sure you can find a custom maker who will help you out.

 

[jkwithawave]

Most of my favorite blades have swedges. Just a preference thing I guess.

OP, which knives were you looking at that you think would be better without the swedge?

 

[Henry44]

Swedges been around a LONG time, at least on slip joints. I know they were around in the 1900's, probably 1800's maybe before. I feel like they add a more finished and svelte look. I pass on most knives that don't have swedges. The blades without swedges appear to me, to be "stamped" without that final flair. I love Buck slip joints, fortunately they discontinued the swedge in 1986. If they hadn't discontinued the swedge i would be broke, because i would be buying more Bucks.

I feel like there are far too few blades with swedges. So as mentioned earlier, don't buy them. I usually don't buy them without. regards Henry

 

[marthinus]

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/503503-A-Brief-Study-On-Swedges

There are (many) others, and if you're actually curious, and not just venting about a feature you happen to dislike aesthetically, you may find the search function quite useful to answer your questions.

At the end of the day, nobody is forcing you to buy a swedged knife. Sometimes I like them, sometimes not. It's not as easy as you may think to balance a knife by changing the handle, and if you want to improve cutting ability, changing the handle doesn't do anything. There are good and valid reasons for using them, and many people actually like the aesthetics. Since you don't, there's an easy solution. Don't buy them. If you simply must have a design that currently has a swedge, I'm sure you can find a custom maker who will help you out.

This for the win. What a great read! Thanks for the link.

 

[blame it on god]

Some of my favorite knives swedges. In both looks and cutting performance. So they can stay in my book.

 

[Goosey]

They make the tip pointier and they can look good as well.

A lot of knives, I don't need or want to baton or push on the spine... but I always like to have a pointy tip on an EDC.

 

[Valle]

Thanks to everybody who chimed in.

I can see most of you like the finer tips a swedge may bring to a design. I don´t. You are in the majority, I get it, I just have to look around at the offerings in the current market to get it. Some also mentioned the looks. Sometimes looks go right over my head when I´m choosing a work or EDC knife, so I can´t say I relate.

Yeah they really are useless. Unless you're out in the bush and need to bore a hole, take a splinter out, need an extra pointy tip for processing small game etc...

All of this can be done with a full tip, but try it with a swedge.

I use my knives mostly in the bush and, just like the next guy, I choose the ones most suitable for each task. Incidentally, I have a preference for spear points. Like you said, I never needed a swedge to do any of the things you mentioned.

I do appreciate, however, what you are saying. I just find that, in my case, the benefits of a pointier tip are not worthy the patent loss in versatility and strenght.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/503503-A-Brief-Study-On-Swedges

There are (many) others, and if you're actually curious, and not just venting about a feature you happen to dislike aesthetically, you may find the search function quite useful to answer your questions.

No.

I had read the thread you linked to some years ago. The bulk of it pertains to the use of swedges in multiblade slipjoints, which hardly apply to anything else. In the same thread, they also mention swedges in Bowie knives, limiting the discussion of its usefulness to combat roles.

At the end of the day, nobody is forcing you to buy a swedged knife. [...] There are good and valid reasons for using them, and many people actually like the aesthetics. Since you don't, there's an easy solution. Don't buy them.

Eh. That´s quite obvious ain´t it?

Most of my favorite blades have swedges. Just a preference thing I guess.

OP, which knives were you looking at that you think would be better without the swedge?

Well Jkwithawave, I could mention, for instance, the Moki Kronos. It has a pretty aggressive swedge:

I much prefer the Al Mar Eagle FFG blade, also made by Moki:

I feel the AM Eagle is the stronger, more versatile design, and it´s tip is pointier than most offerings in its category.

Try opening a letter with your super thick spined knife.

While I agree that most swedges are put on to make knives look aggressive, let's not forget that they were designed for a very practical purpose.

Indeed, the Moki Kronos above would probably fare a little better at opening letters.

I think your not fully aware of the purpose of a swedge or that if the knife is of any quality there is hardly any structural problems. Also they don't have to go to a pointed cross section so a partial swedge wouldn't be a problem batoning.

Sorry, but you completely missed the point. Of course a swedge does not automatically cause structural problems. The thing is, given the same blade shape, the blade with no swedge would be stronger. Sometimes much stronger.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I love a good swedge. Adds a lot of class to many knives.

I love a good swedge on a bowie, and on a traditional folder, and on a

It adds some real class, and I like the effect of a finer point.

 

[Bugout Bill]

Swedges don't necessarily mean a knife will have a weak tip. Compare the Falkniven A1 or CS SRK with the Buck 119.

with the Buck 119.

Both are designed to allow for better penetration than a trailing point, but the CS and Falkniven are designed more with strength in mind.

 

[Valle]

Swedges don't necessarily mean a knife will have a weak tip. Compare the Falkniven A1 or CS SRK with the Buck 119.
[...]
Both are designed to allow for better penetration than a trailing point, but the CS and Falkniven are designed more with strength in mind.

Hello Bill, you´ve got some fine examples there. I don´t mind mild swedges like the ones you posted, I guess I don´t even notice those. It is the agressive swedges in otherwise utilitarian designs that rub me the wrong way. I am beginning to think that, in some blades, the criterion for the inclusion of steep swedges may be pure looks. If that is the case, I find it sad.

 

[Bugout Bill]

I am beginning to think that, in some blades, the criterion for the inclusion of steep swedges may be pure looks. If that is the case, I find it sad.

Well, aesthetics are very important when you are trying to sell a product. The Rick Hinderer bowie is probably the prime example of this.

 

[chiral.grolim]

... I don´t mind mild swedges like the ones you posted, I guess I don´t even notice those. It is the agressive swedges in otherwise utilitarian designs that rub me the wrong way. I am beginning to think that, in some blades, the criterion for the inclusion of steep swedges may be pure looks. If that is the case, I find it sad.

I still don't understand, you mean that you don't like swedges on tiny very skinny knives like the ones you posted (when the blade is thin enough that you don't see a purpose to making it thinner and reducing strength) but don't mind them on larger thicker knives (where the swedge does little to reduce strength)? For example, you dislike the Kabar Dozier Thorn:

But you are OK with the Cattaraugus 225Q: