What's WRONG with the cheapy WW2 Japanese swords?

L

Lavan

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Nov 8, 2000
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The ones with serial numbered blades. I know they are not made in the old layered way, but the one I have is a VERY nice sword. Yeah, it has the metal handle instead of wrapped, but it is sharp and it seems to me, historic.

It seems as good or better than some of the custom maker ones that are not made in the old way either but sell for huge prices.

These, to me, are true battle swords and seem very underrated for what they are and were used for. Mine even looks to have a temper line though straight.

Opinions?
 
In short, no, they're crap (most of them).

That is, they're crap when you compare them to the true Nihonto, from a functional, attention to details and geometry, heat tretament, quality of the mounts, and quality of the raw materials standpoint.

This being said, they're certainly serviceable, and they're fine WW2 memorabilia in their own right. But they don't compare to traditionally made Jpz swords.

Interestingly enough, they are illegal to own in Japan because considered to only be weapon with no redeeming artistic qualities.

JD
 
I have a nice papered Tanto and there is no comparison to the blade finish.

But it still seems as good as some of the multithousand dollar ones I see being made by some custom blacksmiths.
 
Lavan,

You are experiencing some of the vulgarity of the Japanese sword market. There is nothing physically wrong with the NCO sword. It is as you note a solidly made serviceable sword. However, which ever boat floats Japanese swords today has deemed that manufactured blades are to be excluded, and this has thinned the secondary market for them.

Oddly enough, the NCO sword will eventually climb in value. However, the collector interest will likely come from people collecting WWII memorabilia rather then from the traditional Japanese sword market. When that happens the quality of these swords will be measured by their state of preservation rather then their level of maintenance. To these collectors polishing an old sword is simply the wonton distruction of a historical artifact.

n2s
 
Also consider that many NCO sword mountings were mounted with older family blades. If the blade has an armory # on it, it is still a nice WW II collectable
 
I'll move this to the Sword Forum for you....

IMHO guntos are not only perfectly good swords, they're better weapons than most factory-made swords, including some that collectors slobber over. Their image suffers only because they aren't compared to other factory swords; they're compared to katanas.
 
My grandfathe actually own one. The mass produce ones can be considered as an Antique or for decoration but not a weapon. As a knive or weapon it is no better than a made on taiwan knive.
A real Katana is made form just Carbon Steel not stainless steel. Coz cronium must be added to make stainless stell and it will make the steel soft and so will not hold a good edge.
And it is constructed from combination of steel with diffrent amount of carbon and hardness.
Sometimes as musch as 6 piece. ( The really really good ones)
(1)The center core is low carbon steel and (2)the front where the blade is is a very high carbon steel which very hard. (4) and (5) is a medium carbon content steel that is on both the left and right side. (6) And finally another high carbon content steel for the tip.
After the pieces are aranged they are then heated up and then beaten in to shape. Then it is than tempered by using clay to cover the most of the blade and just leaving the edge part. Heat it up again and then cool down repidly this will result a Harmon.
This is why the cutting edge of a katana can be as hard as 60++HRC and the back can be as soft as 40--HRC.
Will have to say that those constructed this way cost alot and are quite rare there are simpler contrction method.
 
While most historical Japanese swords were made with laminate techniques, it is perhaps flawed logic to assume that this was the reason they were high quality. In fact, many rather shoddy blades I have seen were made with these laminate techniques. There is also little reason why it would make a higher quality sword, only one that is more prone to bend and very hard to break (more like taffy) with less hardenable or unhardenable shingane core.

You can achieve a hamon using a variety of principles, but yakiire is the way you do it with traditional blades. Yakiire is also not the only means to produce a hard edge and a soft spine, nor is it necessarily the "best" way (though I believe it has the prettiest effects). So long as the edge cools faster (to form martensite) and the spine's cooling is delayed (to form pearlite) you will yield the coveted hard edge and soft spine out of the quench. You can also temper the spine back further while leaving the edge martensitic, and have useful results.

As far as showa period (wartime) swords, things were fairly hit and miss. The amount of attention paid to the swords varied dramatically, and there were some that are extremely nice, and some that are shoddy in comparison to even Hanwei pieces (no disrespect intended!). They are not Nihonto, and they are not art pieces in the same way Nihonto are. Because they WERE made in Japan though, there seems to be a natural reaction to judge them by the aesthetic standards of traditional blades, which these were often nowhere near.

Some make extremely good martial arts blades, some are not very high quality and would not be very useful, some would even be downright dangerous to use. It really depends on the individual blade, so it is wise to not automatically assume all production blades made during the war are crap.

I sometimes wish I could come across a really sweet showa blade to shape up, if that means anything :).

If ya come across a good blade, enjoy it without caring if collectors don't value them like Nihonto!
 
ummm well he said serial numbered, it sounds more like the chinese knock offs with bronze tsuka or shocking quality. i have a friend here that collects only WWII katana and he has a lot of the non-traditional blades and they are way better than the chen forged line and one i own has been through many a roll of tatami. they all had to be at a standard of use in battle, and some if your lucky are gendaito blades traditionally made specifically for that person before going off to war (often gifts from the father if it was a gendai blade). or it was like said a family blade that could be a few hundred years old and quite valuable.

no shin-gunto katana were serial numbered and those that are are chinese knock offs. plus the quality varied on how much money the person had, they had to be bought by the officer but you must realise that some nihonto were as poor as some chen blades you get...quickely made, poor polish and grain openings from quick production methods and these will be stamped with arsenal stamps thus being banned in japan (as in if you take one back to japan it will be seized and destroyed). but i've seen nihonto that were attrocious from the smith, poorly made and the polish made me sick...depended on the school and what materials they had available.

i myself am getting at a very devious price a katana made by Yasunori Kajiyama from the world war two reknowned Yasukuni Shrine. these are worth in upwards of $6,000 if in good fresh polish and this one is in great polish with no staining...for a low $1,200 :D in naval gunto mounts which are worth a bit on there own since there wernt many brought back and the quality was better with the way the mounts were setup (plus the saya is covered in shark skin, woohoo). i can't wait to get my paws on it but the person said they'd hold it for me till i can afford it.

either way gendai-to or showa-to katana are very good and not all nihonto are art blades...theres a fine line defining that. ;)
 
Originally posted by fudo
Also consider that many NCO sword mountings were mounted with older family blades.
Click to expand...

That's obviously a separate issue: those would be full fledge Nihonto.
 
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