When a Craftsman outgrows their tools.

[Lotmom]

Hi all. Some of you may know me as "that guy working on a HAP40 chef knife".

I have been sharpening for a number of years now and I have a problem that I'm trying to solve.

I use a relatively cheap waterstone from suehiro, one of their old-school ones, pre-cerax. And it's a great stone.

What I'm trying to figure out is this:

How does a Craftsman(person/woman) know when their skill level has surpassed their tools?

For example, if I can't get the results I want, is that because of my tools? Or do I need to just keep practicing.

As many of you know, sharpening equipment can add up the $ pretty fast, so I try to get as good as I can with whatever equipment I have.


I'm hoping some more experienced craftspeople could help me solve this dilemma.


Thanks in advance,

Ben Herman,
Herman Blades.

 

[Ourorboros]

Well with the better stones, I'm sure I'm not going to surpass them.
However with the wear resistant steels, the problem may be that the stone is not up to the steel. Or at least not up to sharpening in a reasonable amount of time. That isn't a question of skill at all.
If you can consistently get good to excellent results on other steels, but not a relatively modern super steel, the issue probably isn't you. If it is just a question of taking a very long time - and perhaps the edge is more ragged then it should be for the stone - then it isn't you.
It was just a few years ago that HAP40 was the new 'voodoo steel' that would hold an edge for a very long time, but take a very long time to sharpen.

Some older stones, like the older King formulations don't have a lot of grit density. With simpler steels and the stone's softness bringing new abrasive to bear, this wasn't an issue. However, compared to a Chosera or Shapton they take longer to sharpen even those steels. Now you have a wear resistant steel and the lack of abrasives should start to show.

 

[Lotmom]

Well with the better stones, I'm sure I'm not going to surpass them.
However with the wear resistant steels, the problem may be that the stone is not up to the steel. Or at least not up to sharpening in a reasonable amount of time. That isn't a question of skill at all.
If you can consistently get good to excellent results on other steels, but not a relatively modern super steel, the issue probably isn't you. If it is just a question of taking a very long time - and perhaps the edge is more ragged then it should be for the stone - then it isn't you.
It was just a few years ago that HAP40 was the new 'voodoo steel' that would hold an edge for a very long time, but take a very long time to sharpen.

Some older stones, like the older King formulations don't have a lot of grit density. With simpler steels and the stone's softness bringing new abrasive to bear, this wasn't an issue. However, compared to a Chosera or Shapton they take longer to sharpen even those steels. Now you have a wear resistant steel and the lack of abrasives should start to show.

I'm more interested in getting to that "next level".

I mostly do work for chefs and collectors, but the idea of being able to slice toilet paper or treetop hair really appeals to me.

I can consistently get a knife more than sharp enough for it's intended job, but I've never been one to leave well enough alone.

 

[HeavyHanded]

A lot of the finesse effect comes from choice of finishing stone in my opinion. Even on the tougher steels, most stones will handle the initial sharpening reasonably well. As you get closer to finishing the edge off, the composition of the finish stone compared to the steel becomes more of an issue.

So your trusty stone is probably doing fine, but you might want to add something in the 6-8k.

Personally, the stone quality seems to effect speed of the job more than quality of the edge, although a premium waterstone will also deliver a somewhat better edge depending on the steel. On many steel types there is no difference.

 

[Lotmom]

A lot of the finesse effect comes from choice of finishing stone in my opinion. Even on the tougher steels, most stones will handle the initial sharpening reasonably well. As you get closer to finishing the edge off, the composition of the finish stone compared to the steel becomes more of an issue.

So your trusty stone is probably doing fine, but you might want to add something in the 6-8k.

Personally, the stone quality seems to effect speed of the job more than quality of the edge, although a premium waterstone will also deliver a somewhat better edge depending on the steel. On many steel types there is no difference.

Oh wow, I didn't expect for the one and only heavy-handed to respond, I hear your name around a bit. Ty for the advice, it seems I need more practice.

 

[willc]

I have an older Suehiro 1500 grit stone, probably from 80’s or 90’s and if is anything like yours really the thing it is lacking is speed.
On the harder steels newer stones work faster but sometimes I will purposely use this stone or a King just for that reason, just to slow things down.

It isn’t that you have outgrown the tool it is that you need something different.
Most consider Arks to be outdated but I can find a place for them with certain knives.

 

[Wowbagger]

How does a Craftsman(person/woman) know when their skill level has surpassed their tools?

When the new tool catalog arrives in the mail and the bank account says "Go man go !" ?

Hell, I appreciate the best tools in the world . . . can see the difference, can feel the difference in use. A few of the jobs I do every day, year in and year out actually causes second best tools to crack and fail. I'm not one of the best (fill in the blank / I wear many hats ) "______" but that doesn't mean I should wait for some magical moment or decree from on high to buy better / the best tools.

As they say; if you have to ask you probably can't . . . appreciate it or afford it or need it.
I can't always afford it but cry once they say also.

 

[Wowbagger]

Plenty of people will bang on mightly that tools don't make the crafts person and that a master can do the job with any old pile of poo for tools.

Sure . . . that's true.
I defy he/she to smile while he/she is doing the work though.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Plenty of people will bang on mightly that tools don't make the crafts person and that a master can do the job with any old pile of poo for tools.

Sure . . . that's true.
I defy he/she to smile while he/she is doing the work though.

I have a bunch of combination stones sprinkled around work, my basement, sometimes I'll just grab one and use it because I'm in a hurry or realize I forgot to change the water in my stone bath again. I just use them as well as they are able - on most jobs this is enough but it isn't as good as I can do with better gear. I don't use half of my gear, but regret buying very little. Even stuff that didn't pay off still gave me an education.