When a knife is a good knife?

A

aguijonmagico

Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
287
Hi.
Mi real name is Daniel, I'm from Buenos Aires, Argentina. Labour Law Lawyer in the real life.

I started collecting a year and half ago, maybe two years. I had no idea, ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA about knives.

One day I saw a street vendor selling what I now know are cheap chinese auto folders. I was in love at first sight. Shiny, pointy, auto, COOL.
Only AR$40, something next to nothing in US dollaras. Let's say USD4.
Then I move to cheap chinese push daggers.
I have two :o

Then I started with boker.
Boker armed forces folders I and II, boker armed forces fixed blade tanto, boker tuff.
Then I went for muela knives. Muela is a spanish brand, well known in Argentina, 440 C steel, good finish in general.
Have the Jabali, the Bowie, the Piooner model, two short with big belly skinners.
Then the beker bk2.
Then Zt 0100 fixed blade 3v steel
Then zt 0300
Then fox pro hunter folding, micarta scales, N690co, liner lock and lawks.
Then Bechmade 741 Onslaught.

Soooooooooooooo

I feel that I've "parked" myself in what you could call a set level of knives.
Steel better than 440C or AUS8 (154, S30V, N690Co, 3v)
Locks stronger than liner lock (frame lock, liner wiht lawks, axis)
Handles better than average also (machined g10 or micarta or titanium)
Cool looking :cool:

Those qualities is what NOW I define like a "good knife". Not good as in "it fullfills it purpose as knife", but as in "in the current production and semi custom market, they are from the middle up". You have with them most of what current state of the art knife science (?) has to offer today.

I posting this because today I have red every catalog out there, been reading this and other forums for months, been talking with knowledgeable (?) people, been testing my own knives, carrying them, cut myself with them, etc.

And NOW I'm reading things like "yeah, 154cm is a serviceable steel, but SV125 it's better"
Or "M390 es good, but k390 its one order of magnitud better". I've red this last one here, in the spyderco forum, a user asking for a sprint run on them.

And I don't even know yet what m390 is, much less k390.

Sooooooooooooooo

I know this is very subjective, but I would like to hear other subjectivities: when a knife is a good knife? What qualities makes a knife more than just average?

I forsee the extreme tipical answers:

a) A buck 110 420 steel it's more than enough, because of the heat treatment and blade geometry. An average user like you would never tell the difference.
All else is marketing hype.

b) You pay what you get for.

I've detected differences, very clear differences. When you sharpen 420 on a stone, the sound the steel makes it's very different from S30V, and it's harder to sharpen S30V.

154cm has a sharper edge than anything I've been able to produce on a 420.

Where S30V chips, 154cm bends.

And so.

Rambling. Sorry.

What qualities does a knife need in your view to be considered above average?

My next purchase would be a zt0561, to try the blade shape and Elmax steel. And it would meet all of MY criteria.
 
A good knife, in my opinion, must:

-Made of quality materials. Pot metal or plastic scales or frames are unacceptable. Screws shouldn't be stripping out regularly

-Have a decent quality blade steel. 8Cr13MOV is about as low-brow as I am willing to go. Gerber's mystery steels are flat out unacceptable.

-Serviceable by the end-user. I shouldn't need a proprietary tool to take apart or adjust my knife.

-Good ergonomics.

-Good fit and finish. If I am paying $100+ for a knife, the F&F should be flawless.

-Perhaps most importantly, a reliable locking mechanism. I don't want to have to constantly worry about cutting my fingers off when I'm cutting something.

Good luck to the OP with his knife collecting and welcome aboard!
 
If a knife is doing what you expect it to do...then it' a good knife.

Your expectations may change as you become a more experienced user, and so what is "good" to you may also change over time.

And rememver "you" is key...what you consider good and what I consider good may be two entirely different things, and despite what anyone tells you, the only thing that matters is what you consider good.
 
very nice way to open discussion. :)

first time i started my journey with 'good knives' is about 2.5 years ago. i am using my knives for edc and camping only this far.
i start off with opinel in carbon steel, mora's 12c27, and coldsteel's krupp 4116 . from there, I think the opinel considered as my 'above average' knife. i really like it's usefulness ,design, and it's steel.

then I bought myself an Spyderco Persistence 8cr13mov and dislike it, on the same month i am getting a new ontario rat Model 1 folder in AUS-8. it was like a total upgrade from my opinel. i like it very much It almost rides in my pocket for almost a year, everyday. this knife should for me is above average.

about 1 year after i got the rat model 1, a friend of mine showing off his Spyderco Gayle Bradley and how he is impressed by that knife. i bought it, and it quickly racks in above average list (and it is currently my most favourite) .

then came spyderco delica (second most favourite). and enzo fixed blade. also above average.
based on my journey in knives, i could say my criteria is firstly the design. how nice is it in my hand? how it rides in my pocket? oh and I tend to like slicers. so the blade thinnes count. then the steel. i don't mind carbon steels, i just need knives that could stay sharp for more than a day or two.. and if it's a folder, as long as the blade doesnt contact with the scale and the lock up is tight (no blade plays) - f&f problems - i would be happy:)
 
marcinek said:
If a knife is doing what you expect it to do...then it' a good knife.

Your expectations may change as you become a more experienced user, and so what is "good" to you may also change over time.

And rememver "you" is key...what you consider good and what I consider good may be two entirely different things, and despite what anyone tells you, the only thing that matters is what you consider good.
Click to expand...

This.
 
I'll throw in my .02..

Split/shave wood, act as a tool to start a fire, if I have nothing else
Take/hold a good, working edge
Cut through a variety of materials easily
Easily resharpen, while losing a minimum of material (meaning I don't have to grind my brains out)
That I can carry with me, if I so choose, if legal
Has a good fit/finish, looks nice/well-made
Good handle material (Micarta!)
Comfortable in hand, in the pocket (of if fixed, the hip or back)

Simple as that :-). Bk-11 comes to mind.

Welcome to the boards, Daniel.
 
Thanks everybody for the replies.
I see we have several traits in common.
About the bk 11, I forgot to mention, I also have an Izula.
 
First and foremost a knife is a tool so does the tool do the job you want it to do? You are focusing on numbers and words that do not matter. They might explain certain things but they do not matter by themselves. If the knife does the job you want it to then it is a good knife.

Next would be ergonomics/comfort. Does the knife make it easy to do the job that it is doing by feeling right in your hand?

After that would be reliability. How long will it do the job?

Last is likely fit/finish. Minor annoyances that likely don't interfere with doing the job but might irk you.

Notice I didn't include cost. Cost has nothing to do with being a good knife or not. Of course higher priced knives might improve some of the above but then again maybe they don't. A lot of high dollar knives are high dollar due to intangibles and have little or nothing to do with the actual use of the tool. That doesn't mean they don't add value. It just means that value will differ greatly from person to person just as what one person can afford differs from person to person.

I tend to "overbuy" on knives these days. I, too, like buying knives of premium steels with nice handles that are overbuilt for anything I would ever actually need them for. I've also sworn off anything from China for future purposes. When a friend of mine that doesn't have as much free cash as me just needs a working knife I have no problem recommending a simple Buck 110 or one of the cheaper made in China Kershas for a folder or a Mora for a fixed blade. They work and that is all that most people care about.
 
yeah, I hear you.
But as a lawyer, who is I must say on the sofa potato side, meaning fat, knives are not tools to me.
For example, I always carry a victorinox rescue tool in a handsome custom leather sheat on my belt. NEVER USED IT FOR ITS INTENDED PURPOSES. Lol. Sad truth. Hope I don't have to.
But I invent uses for it. I have to open any kind of bag and I take out full of owner's pride and use it to cut that criminal bag.

I carry on my front pocket benchmade 741 onslaught, NEVER USED IT. But I practice against a mirror every night kali angles of atack, high, medium, low, the follow, the pass, the meet, stepping to the side, etc. Also practice the Michael Janich tactical frown. It's the frown he makes in his photographs:p
Considering introducing Jim Wagner tactical face makeup, green, black stripes plus red lips, nah, just kidding.

I a knife nut, not a knife user.
Cool story: I have to walk several blocks from the university where I teach to my home, at night. I was fantasazing about wich moves I was gonna put on a hypothetical crook, when I stepped on a snail. It went CRAC!
MAN, I WAS SO SORRY! REALLY.
Then, I saw the irony of imagining how I was willing to use a knife in selfdefense and my sadness about killing by accident a snail. I couldn't hurt a fly. I have a wife, two sons, and two cats.

So, I buy the knives because I like them. I like to play with them, and even to train with them. I even throw knives. Poorly, but I'm practicing.
But I don't use them to survive, I don't use them in my work, not to hunt, not to fish, nothing. Just collect and play with them.

He who is free of buying knives for the mere pleasure of owning them, may throw the first stone.
 
Oh man you are cracking me up! My wife too actually. :)

You make some very good points that are right on target about what response you might expect to hear for a given question regarding steel. I have noticed that in the same thread you will hear about how xxxx steel cut a car in half (sic) with no damage, then when I point out that my knife in the same steel chipped on cardboard that I'm expecting too much, "it's only steel"...

Silly, but there are plenty of similar examples. I'm not much of a user either, if I'm honest. What I can tell you though is that now that I have started really sharpening my knives all of those supersteels seem much less appealing. I find myself pleased far more by the wicked edge I can put, and maintain, on more simple blade steels.

I hate s30v now. I love 440c 154cm and high carbon steels. ;)
 
to me a good is in carbon steel (O1, W1, Vanadis 4e)or semi inox (D2, Sleipner even INFI). Then a good ergonomical handle, and if it has to be a multitask knife, 7 inches blade.
 
zt 0300 s30v chipped the point on a bathroom tile practicing my star wars kid moves in front of my bathroom mirror.
154cm bended the tip a little over falling on a ceramic tiles floor. Been able to fix it.

My vote goes for 154cm.

I was lusting after a military s30v
now lusting after an emerson cq somethin in 154cm
OR
the benchmade 860 bedlam.
154cm all the way, baby.

440c great edge attaining and rettention.

BTW, sorry for language errors, I'm argentinean. Plus, writing fast from tablet.
Not mexican, nor brazilian,argentinean.
Dulce de leche, tango, maradona, messi, the new pope, the new queen of holland, that sort of things.
We have so much international individual figures because our country is quite crappy, so we want to escape from it.
Joking. Mostly.
 
Welcome to the forums Daniel, you're an instant hit!

I have found this to be the most informative and helpful forum on the internet. As a side note, we all have opinions and as someone else stated what matters is what you think.

Good luck with your collecting, sounds like you have a great start.

Pat
 
"Good" is in the eye of the beholder. The "beholder" is enveloped in circumstance, knowledge & bias. I personally have little, if any, room for "good" knives. My limited space and funds can only afford a few "great" knives. ...which again can only be defined by the beholder. Sebenza. There.. I said it!
 
Your english has been fine, I've had no trouble at all reading your posts. They've all been quite interesting. :-) All in all, all that matters is that you enjoy the knives you have. It doesn't matter if you use them, work with them, survive with them or what have you, you enjoy them and that's all that matters. Sounds like you've found a good hobby to me. Oh, I noticed you said you have an Izula! Now that, like the Bk-11, is a good rough-use, work knife. They're also quite nice to look at in a collection, I'm sure. As for the snail, look on the bright side of things--it was quick, it likely didn't feel anything, and it was far safer than stepping on a banana peel. I've been there and done that and found myself at the bottom of a set of stairs years ago. I'll tell you, my hiney was black and blue for days after that. Concrete steps SUCK!
 
NEVER USED IT FOR ITS INTENDED PURPOSES. Lol. Sad truth. Hope I don't have to.
But I invent uses for it. I have to open any kind of bag and I take out full of owner's pride and use it to cut that criminal bag.
Click to expand...

Welcome Daniel, this thread has me laughing:D

I agree with what ANDREW S said,
1st of all a good knife must CUT!
But for me,
2nd would be reliability,
then Ergonomics
and Fit and Finish would probably be taken care of with high reliability and good ergonomics.

He who is free of buying knives for the mere pleasure of owning them, may throw the first stone.
Click to expand...
Not here!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top