When does advertising become hype?

Joined
Sep 29, 1999
Messages
128
I've read a lot of posts lately (who hasn't?) where certain makers are criticized for over-hyping their work. At what point does advertising and pride in workmanship cross the line to where it is generally considered "hype"?

Thanks in advance for your opinions / input.

BTW, I'm not particularly interested in flaming any specific makers, I'm just curious as to what the other forum members would consider hype as opposed to advertising.

[This message has been edited by Steve6 (edited 19 November 1999).]
 
IMHO I think advertising becomes hype any time it does one or both of the following:

[*] When it makes a claim that is not true.

[*] When it moves beyond comunicating the factual advantages of the product itself and starts suggesting, either overtly or more often with subtle suggestion, that owning it will make you a different, more desirable sort of person: "People like you (or like you want to be thought of) -- discerning, refined, macho, tactical -- all buy product X."

The most powerful examples of the second sort of hype have to do with photo campaigns and product names. Marlboro and Cool cigarettes are examples, as are the photos and product names in slick catalogues and magazine ads. Randall simply made a Model One. CS makes a Recon Scout, Desperado, Special Forces Shovel, Imperial Tai Pan, etc. and sets them in impressive photo contexts within jungle foliage, south of the border sunset colors, Japanese art work, etc.

[This message has been edited by Uncle Bill (edited 19 November 1999).]
 
I think that the longevity of a product and company speaks for itself. I think that the best advertizing it done by us, here on the forum.

I'm not going to buy a knife because a company's marketing department says I should. I'm going to buy a knife from a company or a maker who has withstood the test of time. Take the Benchmade 710/705 for example, I was thinking about buying one, but after all the good publicity it has recieved on the forum, an Axis-Lock will definitly be my next purchase.

Just my thoughts,
Mitch
 
I think I could go on for hours in answer to this question, defining different methods of deceptive advertising -- and that's without giving examples....


Here's one that hasn't been mentioned yet: hyping a knife as something wonderful because it's capable of doing something practically any knife can do, such as opening a letter or piercing a car door.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
I believe hype is unsubstantiated claims. I do not believe stating the obvious is hype, it is just part of marketing.
It would be nice if every company could just lay a picture of the product out on the internet or in a magazine and it just starts selling. It ain't gonna happen... something needs to be said.
The problem of hype usually enters under stiff competition. I believe the more hype in a market the better off the "initiated" consumer because it means the market has really broadend. I is an indication that there is now more to choose from.
Wade through the hype and enjoy the bandwidth of the marketing channel.

------------------
>)-RadarMan-(<
age:38
When you argue with a fool, that makes two -- Vermont Proverb


 
Steve,
For me the advertising becomes hype when the manufactuor tells you that if you buy product "X" you will have a better life, or you will get more out of life. Sure I may own an official zero gravity knife, but that does not make me an astronaut. I dont think that to many products are going to CHANGE my life.

------------------
Shawn R Sullivan
~San Diego, Ca~
 
Something else that should raise the red flags is when a maker claims that its knives are "the best ever". What hubris. If I, a simple consumer, can't decide what the best maker ever is, then how can a maker possibly come to a reasonable conclusion that its own knives are the best ever?

Also beware of makers that put their own knives through tests and then proclaim that they passed with flying colors. You simply can't test your own products; the results will be biased.

"Hey! Didn't you watch our video where we do such-and-such to our knives and everything is peaches and cream?" Yeah. I also read the reports by R.J.R. where their "studies" show that cigarettes aren't addictive and don't cause cancer. A company that's on the level shouldn't even publish results of their in-house tests.

------------------
Cerulean
Denver, CO


 
I think Cougar hit the most important point, facts without standards are pretty much all hype as they cannot be interpreted in a meaningful manner.

-Cliff
 
Probably 90% of modern advertising is hype, not so much by way of overt claims as by way of subliminal suggestion.

[*] Winchester firearms catalogue cover: cowboy on galloping horse, silhoutted against prairie sunset.

Let's get real folks. When I buy a Win. 30-30, I buy a fine tool, but it makes me no less a UPS driver in Peoria than I was before. No piece of metal and wood, regardless of the pictures in a catalogue, can give me the callused hands, many-winters-on-the-range experience, and thousand-coyotes-on-the-fence trigger finger of a real Wyoming ranch hand.

But today's advertising machine, with every fiber of its multi-billion dollar being, wants to divert our thoughts away from this simple, obvious reality.

Watch TV tonight and then ask yourself: How many of the ads were about real product advantages and how many were about what kind of person uses the thing and what kind of life-style it conjures?

------------------
Bill

Unfortunate but Increasingly Necessary Disclaimer:

While this post likely contains incorrect information, fuzzy logic, poor grammar and misspelled words, what it does not contain is intentional malevolence toward anyone.


 
"90% of modern advertising is hype"

Truer words were never spoke. And "product reviews" in magazines are even worse; they're not even covered by the minimal false advertising enforcement that does exist, because they're paid for in a slightly different way.

As long as that's what consumers base their buying decisions on, though, that's what they'll get.

Re makers and resellers testing their own knives, the way we're getting organized to duplicate those tests and post results on the net is going to change that. I'm reminded of how ammunition companies used to make exaggerated velocity claims in every ad ... until everybody and his hamster got his own chronograph.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
I understand why advertising people gloss products. The idea is to put the products in the best light with the goal to sell. It wouldn't make any sense for people to downplay products.

Incidentally, the most successful glossing I've ever seen most recently is none other than Steve Jobs back at the helm selling smiles with his iMac. I know a techie guy who voiced his concern from the very beginning that the iMac is nothing more than a stripped down version of previous models with prettier packaging. Also, the iMac has very limited upgrade capability. I know I know, the G3/G4 is available for that, and again, with prettier packaging.

But you know what? People'll buy it. Jobs gave people what many dreamed of from a computer. And people doesn't seem to mind if their iMacs are stripped down machines.

You know, marketing is like pick-up lines. Some will utterly charm your socks off, but most won't get you anywhere. The worst are the ones that contain a bit too much um.. testastrone, for the lack of a better word.
smile.gif
No, actually the worst are outright lies.

Hype, to me, is when you make promises about something, regardless of whether the promises are kept or not. There is often a difference between the manufacturing dept and the marketing dept. Sometimes, marketing depts. eve are separate agencies or companies. In short, marketing people specialize in trying to get the word out to people, but they don't always have the full information straight. There are lots of examples of products that were still the R&D stage, but "those in charge" told the marketing people to start creating product awareness. What does marketing people have? Only some sketchy details of what the product may or may not be capable of. That's just the reality of things. But, in the end, it is pretty disappointing when hype doesn't live up to expectation. My only point is that it's not always the marketer's fault (though I assume sometimes it is.)

Unlike hype, which is the level of standard created from the supply side, expectation is the level of standard from the ELU side. Sometimes, expectation comes from past performances of certain products or their makers. Sometimes, it is caused by hype from marketing and advertising.

Vapor is when a product outrightly does not live up to hype (or even exist at all).

There is ideally a sweet spot every advertiser wants to hit, and that's where optimal hype meets optimal expectations from use of end product. Naturally, this is very difficult to do, but the result can pay in spades. In fact, many become cultural icons. Brand recognition is often times more powerful, thus more important, than the actual product itself. Amazon.com to Mercedes. Endless examples.

Um, what was my point again? Doh. Well, my opinion is that there is nothing wrong with hype. Yes, it is disappointing when we feel a product doesn't live up to the hype, but that's the way the business world goes round. But I agree with what I think is the general concensus here: Too much hype preys on the public's ignorance. It might work. On the other hand, if we (the public) find out, we will be pi$$ed and it will completely backfire. Simple outright lies are not only immoral but illegal. Hex to those who have lied to the public.

My personal opinion on marketing is that I would like to see dignity and integrity when being courted by makers and manufacturers. "Hi. My name is company so-and-so. I have a wonderful product I would like to share with you. Here are technical details if you are interested. As you can see, we don't have anything to hide and we mean what we say. But I think once you get your hands on it, you'll understand why we are so excited about sharing this product with the world. Now, I'll leave you alone and let you judge this product for yourself based on its own merits."

Ideally, if a product is really that good, it will sell itself. The moral objective of marketing is simply to get the word out (granted, with a positive spin). Beyond that, it's just BS to me. I find the ones that tells you how wonderful they are to be rude. In effect, they're telling you how you should think. I can think and judge something for myself thank you very much. And I couldn't care less how far someone can pi$$ with this thing. Since not everyone can market with dignity and integrity, my only personal recommendation (to ELUs) is to ignore the marketing and make your assessments based on the product itself.

Forgive my oral diarrhea. I feel better now.
smile.gif


[This message has been edited by SB (edited 20 November 1999).]
 

Feature / Benefit is the gap that must be crossed before anyone will buy anything. That is to say we do not purchase a knife simply because it is sharp (sharp is a feature). We purchase a sharp knife because it will cut the things we want to cut (cutting is the benefit). Features will not sell … only the perceived benefits that such features may provide can motivate you to buy. Skilled marketers highlight features in an attempt to somehow make a connection with the benefit that a particular purchaser desires. The more features that appear to provide these benefits the greater the probability a buyer will feel he NEEDS to purchase the item. These benefits do not necessarily need to be closely related to the product being sold. Most of us desire several things in common. For example; all of us would like the “benefit” of living longer healthier lives. That is why we see commercials that explain the features of certain breakfast cereals that “can reduce the risk of cancer”. Who wants cancer? Nobody. The farther the benefits are removed from the product the deeper the hype.
 
Hype is often indicated by frequency of "-er" and "-est" as suffix. ie: "faster" or "strongest."

Almost all "Buzzwords" are indicative of hype. ie: "SEALS" "TACTICAL" "THE FUTURE OF..."
 
Very interesting thread, especially from a manufacturers point of view.

Scott - Well put with the "features" & "benefits".

Radarman - "It would be nice if every company could just lay a a picture"

How would you know what the materials are?

Do you think that ELU buy a knife simply because of it's appearance?

What methods do you think manufacturers should use to advertise and promote our products?

Without some type of marketing, the market does not know the product exists and it will be stillborn.

Saying "nothing" about a product does not create the desire in the ELU to purchase the product, so something must be said.

"Word of mouth" has no value in a "new" product. Non out there to "word" about.

A good reputation takes many years to develop, difficult for a new company.

If you were the Marketing Director of a Knife Manufacturing Company such as Spyderco, Benchmade or Boker, What would you do?

sal
 
Hello,

This is exactly why I am going to be Producing a Performance Video on My own Knives and those of the M.E.U.K Series.

I think if more "REALITY" was injected into Performance issues, Hype wouldnt be nessessary.

I always Remember the HYPE as Associated with the SAMURAI SWORDS of Old as possessing Mystical Powers, Cutting Machine Gun Barrel`s, Cutting through Countless victims with a single stroke, Ect...

I think if a MAKER or a Manufacturing Firm makes good solid Performance Cutlery the Need for HYPE is Negated as the Knives will speak for themselves with a Consistant pattern.

Its when the maker has Limited ability
and is not consistant with Quality that HYPE
becomes his best friend. for example,
Proprietary Handle materials, Secret Heat treat, or a new Secret Steel.

Nothing is secret if you have the Resorces and ability to Dig deep for the Truth and the ability to Expose the HYPE.

I think if a maker or manufaturing firm can`t Promote there Knives based on the
Actual Consistant Performance values they instill into there product then they are selling the public a Knife based around
myth and magic, an not around real world consistant performance. This helps no one.

Anyway my .02

Thanks , Allen Blade
 
Sal, what I like to see is a way to get thorough specification on the product, in this case knives. Your little catalog is good. I would like to see the hole diameter included. Grit numbers on sharpening stones. That kind of thing. Comparative findings on your steel studies would welcome in the steel
section.

One thing I would like is more pictures on web sites. Often with liner locks makers leave out spacers but with side photos there is no way to see.

I want all the specs.
 
All it takes for me are good, clear, multi-angle mugshots with something to scale, complete specs and sugguested retail price. The more someone does backflips to sell me some"thing" the less inclined I am to think the "thing" is capable of selling itself. But, then again, I don't watch televison, so I may not be as jaded a consumer as some.
 
Sal,
I have the feeling you may not have read my post to its conclusion.

You Said:
Radarman - "It would be nice if every company could just lay a a picture"

What I stated completely:
It would be nice if every company could just lay a picture of the product out on the internet or in a magazine and it just starts selling. It ain't gonna happen... something needs to be said.

You asked:
How would you know what the materials are?

I said:
... something needs to be said.

You asked:
Do you think that ELU buy a knife simply because of it's appearance?

No, but the proper layout and presentation of a prduct is what gets the attention of the "ELU". So goes a tactical knife through a car door, a bowie through a beer can, and a camp knife through a pile of rope eh?

You asked:
What methods do you think manufacturers should use to advertise and promote our products?

Sal, you know as well as I there are books 5 inches thick on this subject. Any one want to buy one?
wink.gif


You asked:
Without some type of marketing, the market does not know the product exists and it will be stillborn.

Sal, it seems like this happens all to often in this industry. There are some predictable conclusions to most games. Marketing is a game, start up money is the wager.
Many people around this industry seem to get the idea that following the trend in a market place is weak or a sign of jumping on the hype band wagon. A new player has to learn the opening moves before planning the end game, being where the market is at is a key move in the opening game. It is wise to make safe the start up money as soon as possible, it leads to the ability to fund R&D, thus better products(more for the "ELU").

You stated:
Saying "nothing" about a product does not create the desire in the ELU to purchase the product, so something must be said.
"Word of mouth" has no value in a "new" product. Non out there to "word" about.
A good reputation takes many years to develop, difficult for a new company.


I agree. Thats why a marketing strategy needs balance. Odd, but the word "Blackjack" just skid across my mind right after the words "needs balance".

If you were the Marketing Director of a Knife Manufacturing Company such as Spyderco, Benchmade or Boker, What would you do?
Golly Sal I am flattered... uh, right.
I had the pleasure of listening to Bob Terzoula reminisce at the BladeShow '99 awards banquet. He was speaking on your sales techniques during the years of your opening game. I took notes
smile.gif



[This message has been edited by RadarMan (edited 21 November 1999).]
 
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