When does it stop being a hobby?

Patrice Lemée

Patrice Lemée

Joined
Aug 13, 2002
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In the past year or so, I've made good progress with my knifemaking skills. Don't get me wrong, I ain't no pro but I am starting to see some “real” progress. It is never as fast as you would like but fast enough to be rewarding. But this comes at a price it seems. This use to be a hobby. A few hours here and there when time permitted was enough. But with the increase in skill level and complexity of the projects, a few hours here and there just isn't cutting it anymore. And the sad thing is, until I retire, I am going to have a hard time putting in the hours needed. Of course I could do simpler knives but it feels like going backward and I doubt that it would keep me interested for very long.

Have any of you guys been through this? Can knifemaking be a hobby or does it have to be a full time thing if you want to pursue the more advanced avenues of the trade?

Sorry, I guess I am a little bummed out with not being able to do any work during the summer. But this got me thinking about September when hopefully I can start again and if I'll be able even then to put in the time it needs.
 
I am in the same boat as you Patrice. I feel that with time and money involved, I would/should put more time into this. The way i do it is work on a project and set goals...Ok this day to this point, this day to that point, etc. Maybe that will help you overcome the going backwards steps. I believe that you can keep it a hobby...If it stresses you out thinking about it, try to keep it as a hobby so you keep the fun of it....if not...well you know lol.
 
I find that if I join a kith occasionally it not only keeps me going but makes me want to try new things. I don't neccessarily work on a difficult piece for the kith but i tend to have a project piece that I work on while Im there. I don't set a goal for time or anything like that, just that its there staring me in the face whenever I work on the kith knife. That way if it's ready at the timeline, I may send it or I may keep it for myself or for sale. It all depends on how it turns out. It's always a hobby until you rely on it to pay your bills. It just depends on the obsession level :-) As for the wife, whenever we talk about moving, she always brings up that she wants me to have a big enough shop to work in. Gotta love that.
 
I used to call it a hobby, there were even times in the last 30 years I'd lay off
knifemaking for a while. When its paying the bills yeah, the wifes car not in the
garage yeah. Crazy thing is even during the times in the past when not real active
its never gone away. I've never fought it (knifemaking) though god knows I've fought with it.
The most rewarding thing I've ever done..
Ken.
 
Keep in mind that I have still not finished my first knife, but I would think that as soon as it becomes work instead of fun, it is no longer a hobby. I'm not sure how you run your knife sales, but I would feel that if I were taking orders, I'm no longer working for my enjoyment, but I'm working for someone else. Make the knives that you enjoy making, not the ones that customers want. People will still buy your knives. If a knife takes a long time and you can only make a few a year, you will get enjoyment from the finished product and all the work you put into it.

BTW, what is a kith?
 
When you have dreams about it... good or bad.

Moose, kith stands for "Knife in the Hat", where a bunch of makers agree to each make a knife and trade them like a secret-Santa deal. Gives everyone a chance to show off, and us newer guys a good kind of pressure, because we know other makers are pretty picky and will help us spot where we need to improve. It's fun! the mini-makers have one going on now. (the makers are normal-size, the knives in this case are scaled down :p)
 
I guess it stopped being a hobby for me when I started making enough money at it that I could conceivably pay half of the bills. I'd been selling knives here and there, putting in hours every night after work and most of the weekend, but just because that's what I did with my spare time. It kind of surprised me one day to realize I could maybe just be a knifemaker.

My fingers are still crossed on that one. I'd hate to go back to punching a clock.

Maybe it stops being a hobby when the drive to do it makes it take precedence. Of course, I didn't have any real great career going beforehand...
 
When does it stop being a hobby?
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When you start to take orders.
When you make more on knives than on a daytime job.
When you stop enjoying it.
When you are out of fresh ideas.

Combine those ingridients in desired proportions, add some spices, stirr and serve cold or boiling hot.
 
When you get so many orders that you have to go full time to keep up with them.

I have always felt that I must do everything with passion or it doesn't work for me.

I was talking vintage cars with this guy one day and told him I was too broke and busy to fix up my '62 Ford Unibody even though I really wanted to. He told me go out there and do one small project when I had the time and if it was important to me that I'd eventually have it done. I realized he was right but I still haven't fixed it up, lol no time and money! Priorities. Your family is most important so I bet you are spending your time wisely.

...then again you might want to quit your job and focus on those sub hilt's of yours, I want to see another one! :D
 
Thanks for the input guys. Maybe I asked the question wrong.
It is not that it is becoming a job that's the problem. I haven't sold a knife yet and may never do, who knows.
Inspiration is still there thank God. (But you never know when it will go away.)
The garage has long been taken over but the wife doesn't mind. (Found a real gem :D)

The problem is that the knives I want to make are getting more complicated and I am also wanting a higher quality/finish/fit/etc... of work. That means for a beginner like me, that doesn't know what he is doing at least 50% of the time, maybe 70-80 hours of work for a knife. And that doesn't take into account setup time, cleanup, etc. Also some things are complicated enough that I need longer stretches in the shop, like 4-5 hours. If I just have an hour or two, I just waste too much time setting up and getting back into it. Don't know if it makes sense.:confused:
That ends up being an awfully large amount of free time and if life doesn't cooperate, it can drag on for months.

Anywho, sorry for rambling on. Guess I am just a little bummed out like I said before.
 
I am in a band and it is like that, it takes a lot of time to compose new songs and keep up with the old ones. If you have to spend a lot of time on setting up or traveling it really takes it out of you when you need to keep a high energy level. Motivation is no problem but it is tough work even so.

Solution... I don't know? I have simplified everything as much as possible so I can get straight to work and drink a lot of coffee.
 
I think anytime you take a hobby and do if for money it is going to take away from some o the fun. I am a machinist, who opened a shop on my own property. Originally I wanted the shop for fun, but then with the crappy economy I lost my job and had to make money somehow. Long story short I now make a sparse living off of my machine shop. Needless to say, I rarely go out there for fun anymore. It is a bummer because I had always wanted a machine shop since I was a kid, and now that I have one it is just a job and not a hobby anymore.

I am in the process of making a KMG'ish clone for finishing some of the parts I produce in our my shop. I also would like to start making knives as a hobby to get me out there doing fun stuff again. However I know myself and I will most likely end up selling them if I can to make some more income. So it is always a struggle when you have a hobby that can make you money, especially if you are good at it and could use the income.

Although if you are lucky enough to be well off or rich and don't need the money why bother selling them? I would love to be in a position like that. Then you could enjoy the hobby and not worry about it.

But if you are like a lot of use these days, you might want to sell a few knives to afford to buy more materials. I would think this would be acceptable and not detract from knife making as a hobby.

Greebe
 
BTW, why can't you work on knives in the summer?

Also you got your response in before I got my last one about a hobby becoming a job.

I guess I don't understand how spending more time would make knife making less enjoyable for you. If you are not rushed to get it done for a contract or a customer, then what difference does it make? Are you looking to pump out as many knifes as possible or make really nice one off custom pieces? If you want to make nice custom pieces that you are not going to sell, but want to pass on to your kids one day, who cares if it takes a lot of time.

I know a machinist who puts 400+ hours into building working small scale intricate internal combustion engines from 100% raw materials. That's not for me, but man is it impressive and in the end they have a one of the kind engine that they are proud of.

I suppose it is perspective in your case. If spending 80 hours on a knife makes you not enjoying knife making as a hobby, then maybe you need to reevaluate things a little or take a break. Just a thought.

Greebe
 
Patrice Lemée;9722010 said:
Anywho, sorry for rambling on. Guess I am just a little bummed out like I said before.
Click to expand...

It might be that you just need a break. Give your wife the keys to the shop, have her lock all your knife books/magazines/notebooks in there and let her block all the knife forums and sites you normally go to for a few days. Do anything non-knife-related... finish that novel you've been meaning to read or write, do some fishing, take extra naps, whatever. Sometimes that can be very refreshing.
 
Pat,

I think some may be missing your point here. The fact that your bummed it's summer and the busywork of life is keeping you away from the shop has nothing to do with whether it's a hobby or not. If it's not your personal sole source of income then it's a "hobby" IMHO. IE you could just stop doing it.

Hobby-enjoyable activity: an activity engaged in for pleasure and relaxation during spare time
Synonyms: pastime, leisure pursuit, diversion, relaxation, sideline, interest

Notice this definition says nothing about the EXTENT to which you enjoy the activity. It's perfectly cool to be addicted to your hobby.

What your feeling now - as your knowledge, skills, abilities, and vision progress and former mountains have become mere molehills the enjoyment and desire to continue and tackle new challenges increases also. Those long complicated projects can be hard on the ole brain because you feels like nothing is getting accomplished until towards the end when things really start comming together. Just like a junky you need a fix buddy.

One thing I continue to enjoy is just banging out something relatively simple every once in awhile just as a gift for a family member. Usually a small kitchen knife. Now that I'm forging I do almost no stock removal knives but in comparison I can knock something out in almost no time. Although this type of making isn't my true interest it gives a quick jolt and feeling of accomplishment that can be beneficial. It also keep skills sharp like grinding, peening etc.

As for those short 1 or 2 hour sessions. My typical routine is just about 2 hours max per weekday after supper and before the wife goes to bed. Thats it :( I went through a phase where I wouldn't even bother getting dirty in the shop for an hour or so. Once the desire to tredge on and continue making progress kicked in everything changed in MY mindset. If I accomplish one thing it was totally worth it like mill one guard slot. Pathetic... yes but having it done set me up for real progress when a longer amount of time was available.

You want a low time, simple, no stress project to give you a little summertime knifemaking fix ? I got an ATS-34 paring knife blank from 1/16" stock profiled and HT-ed I made sittin out in the shop. Drop me an e-mail with your address and I'll send it out to ya. Hardly takes any grinding at all. Leave a belt finish on her and slap on some scales and give it to the wife as a "happy day" gift for no particular reason other than your a good guy. Everybody wins :)

The blank is exactly like this one-
paringknife.jpg


Probably wouldn't take more than 2 or 3 30 minute sessions in the shop to finish it up. Just what a fiending knifemaker needs, LOL

Take care Buddy, Josh
 
I think I understand your question Patrice and have been through the same quandry. I have done some reading on meditation, growth and mastery after hearing a lecture by a Dallas area psychologist who talked about fighting the "racing mind." In the most simple terms, it is man's tendency to concentrate on the negatives of the situation, and ponder the past and future more than the present. This type of mental energy causes mental fatigue and the bummed feeling you expressed. I have also learned that for me, and I suspect you, that this pursuit is all about the process. The end product really is meaningless to me- it was what I learned and the new techniques I honed to get to the end product that matter. It seems that you have your end goals in mind but feel you are being held back from attaining those goals because of time or that you are not getting there fast enough. I think you have created a vicious circle of thinking which is holding you back.

I have found renewed energy in the shop by turning my time into a series of small steps or "nows." I keep a list in my phone of the chronological steps to my projects. I often tweak this list while bored in a meeting. When composing the list I am thinking in the future. Once I decide my steps I stop thinking about them and only concentrate on the task at the top of my list. I make that step my "now." I fight every mental tendency to ponder future steps or past mistakes. My only concern is doing that one single step to the best of my ability and in the most relaxed way. I have learned to breathe more methodically and make my work environment for that step as comfortable as possible.

When challenged by time constraints I break my steps into even smaller chunks. The task at the top of my list reads, "make new leather covered platten for small grinder." When I read that this morning, I decided to take 15 minutes and set up my work area before leaving for work. For those 15 minutes I did not think about anything else but laying out all my materials and tools, moving a light, setting up a fan, vacuuming of the mill and putting away every tool I would not need for that project. This set up time has become a step that is as important as anything else I do in the shop. When I get home tonight everything is ready for me to start cutting and milling the platten. My only step for tonight is to get it made and the leather glued on on it to cure over night. That is the only thing I am concentrating on- it is my NOW.

Something else that has helped me is not to even entertain the inevitable question of "how long does it take" to make a knife. This, again, is a vicious circle that others can drag you into. Answering this question puts your mind into thinking about the past of that knife and all of the negatives you have associated with your product. I now simply answer, "It takes a long time for me to make my vision of this knife a reality."

In summary, I think your way of thinking is creating uneccesary obstacles. Foremost, it is OK to take as much time as you need to make that knife. I have now heard 5 fiull time makers say they "would never do it again." This means that no matter of the time they dedicate, they are still unhappy with their pursuit of the craft. Make the time you have meaningful. Break your time up into tiny chunks. Instead of looking at it taking you 4 hours to setup and make something, look at it as 16 steps of 15 minutes each. I bet you can find at least 15 minutes a day to keep the ball rolling. When the ball is rolling, no matter how slowly, then you will feel better and see yourself getting more done.
 
It is my opinion that a job is something that you do to make money with. going to work every day accomplishes many things, but one of the primary reasons that you do it is because of you need money to survive. on the other hand, a hobby is something that you do for entertainment and relaxation. if you sell some stuff, then the money probably gets dumped into the hobby again so that you can get nicer stuff. granted, you probably are losing money, but you do on any hobby. once it becomes a activity for income, then it becomes a job, whether you are making money or not. if you are taking orders so that you can make cash, then they are a job. it you are taking orders so that you can have challenges, then it is hobby. just my $.02
 
Patrice... this is a cool thread... but honestly, I think you know perfectly well what your answers are. I think you are approaching one of many crossroads to come. The good news is that you are holding the road map, mon ami. How old are your kids?
 
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