When exactly does the AXIS lock expire?

T

the kid

Joined
May 5, 2008
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Or to be more precise, the patent on the lock developed by Bill McHenry and Jason Williams for which Benchmade acquired the (sole?) rights and named it AXIS.

I am in love with this lock and I don't want to buy a knife with any other lock. This obviously poses a problem since Benchmades are a little bit out of my price range.

The patent I think expires in 2014. I would like an exact date so I can mark my calendar and celebrate. (no really) And, not unimportant, would like to know if this patent can be extended :eek: or not.

I very much believe as soon as the patent expires (if it does) most American brands will start to use this lock. I can't wait to get back to this hobby and start collecting $25-$50 knives again from CRKT, Böker, Kershaw and Buck for example.




I deliberately did not post this in the Benchmade forum because I think it's better suited in general
 
Glad to hear that you are waiting to buy something within your monetary range and not opting to buy a Chinese copy. :thumbup:
 
The spyderhole was once a patent and now it is a trademark. This can happen with AXIS lock too, right?
 
jjoanty01 said:
Glad to hear that you are waiting to buy something within your monetary range and not opting to buy a Chinese copy. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Sorry to disappoint but I do have a chinese copy. Which I use as a fold able pry bar. It's missing several screws including a pivot screw and it's still working great with not much play.
Chinese copies are nice. But I want much more choice, better quality control and a more recognizable brand.
 
I remember the Axis Patent number changing a while back (under correction but someone noticed the numbers changed on their benchmades between older and newer once), if I remember correctly with regards to patent law the original inventor can change it by an X amount of percentage and the patent can be extended for another 14 years rather then having the patent expire.

Will have to do some research to make sure of facts though.
 
99cuts said:
The spyderhole was once a patent and now it is a trademark. This can happen with AXIS lock too, right?
Click to expand...

That trademark is invalid under the functionality doctrine in the US. The trademark is invalid as long as anyone actually uses the opening hole as a functional feature of a knife, or as long as anyone thinks that round opening holes are aesthetically appealing on knives.
 
marthinus said:
I remember the Axis Patent number changing a while back (under correction but someone noticed the numbers changed on their benchmades between older and newer once), if I remember correctly with regards to patent law the original inventor can change it by an X amount of percentage and the patent can be extended for another 14 years rather then having the patent expire.

Will have to do some research to make sure of facts though.
Click to expand...

So they make some small changes and the patent is extended.
Does this mean the patent on the old version will still be expired within the original 14 years and free for other manufacturers to use?
(I mean if the old AXIS lock can be used by anyone because the patent is expired but there is a new patent for a newer version)
 
I'm fairly new to the world of knives but aren't sog's arc locks and cold steel tirad very similar to the benchmade axis? Or am I way off?
 
It looks to me like a utility patent (like the AXIS lock), which may date to around 1998 when it first appeared in the 710(?), runs for 20 years, so you may not see the patent expire on that original design until around 2018.

And while US patents are not extra-territorial (i.e., don't apply outside the US), Benchmade seems to have separate China patents on the AXIS lock. So Sanrenmu or Ganzo or any brand in China using an Axis-like lock:

1. Made enough of a change in the design so that the patent isn't being violated under the China patent (unlikely) or

2. Has licensed the Axis lock from Benchmade (also unlikely) or

3. Is infringing the patent, with Benchmade pursuing its claims in China, which is not being publicized in any way here (possible) or

4. Is infringing the patent, with Benchmade not interested in spending the time or treasure to defend the patent in China (seems most likely to me).
 
Shop around, you might find a BM Axis lock knife in your price range. I doubt you'll find an equivalent even if the patent does expire.
 
That would be interesting if it happened. Personally I wouldn't wait for that, I'd save up for a Benchmade.
 
If cost is a major issue I suggest you check a few major knife retailers and read the description of the product. I can think of 2 major knife dealers that are selling each knife at a severe discount. For example a mini grip that would cost $85 is selling for $60 with the coupon.


Look for the coupon code "BR549"
 
imbryan715 said:
If cost is a major issue I suggest you check a few major knife retailers and read the description of the product. I can think of 2 major knife dealers that are selling each knife at a severe discount. For example a mini grip that would cost $85 is selling for $60 with the coupon.


Look for the coupon code "BR549"
Click to expand...
I don't live in the US.;) Otherwise I would already own a mini Griptilian :)
 
Twindog said:
I found a site that says the patent expires in July 2016, providing it's not extended. Also shows the actual patent.

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5737841.html
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vader.jpg


If true, that sucks..:mad:
 
Axis lock Patents as published:

Oct 21, 1999: WO 1999052687 A1

Nov 6, 2002: EP 1071546 A4

Jan 7, 2004: EP 1071546 B1

Apr 27, 2010: USRE41259

The latter is also confirmed by this:

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/RE41259/fulltext.html

the kid said:
So they make some small changes and the patent is extended.
Click to expand...

Yes. This is done to protect the intellectual property of that person. That person also has preference over someone applying for a similar/same patent.

the kid said:
Does this mean the patent on the old version will still be expired within the original 14 years and free for other manufacturers to use?
Click to expand...

No. Patents do not work that way.

the kid said:
I mean if the old AXIS lock can be used by anyone because the patent is expired but there is a new patent for a newer version
Click to expand...

A new patent number is issued yes, but it extends the original patent, thereby, if the old patent number did expire the new one continues to be in affect and one cannot use the old expired patent.

The research above shows that the newest one in affect is 2010. You are going to have to wait a while for other knives to legally use it.

Do not forget that World Trade Agreements are also in affect. Here are the basics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIPS

Note:
Patents must be granted for "inventions" in all "fields of technology" provided they meet all other patentability requirements (although exceptions for certain public interests are allowed (Art. 27.2 and 27.3)[4] and must be enforceable for at least 20 years (Art 33).

In the patents listed above the Axis lock is described as an invention, so until 2030 those that fall within the trade agreement area either have to license it, go into agreement or do it illegally.
 
Save your money up and buy a $70 Griptillian.
One of the best sub $100 knives out there.
 
cncpro11 said:
Save your money up and buy a $70 Griptillian.
One of the best sub $100 knives out there.
Click to expand...

Benchmade doesn't make some of the knife patterns I'd like to see AXIS locks on, unfortunately. If they won't make a product which there is demand for and which no one else is allowed to make, they deserve negative consequences.

For example, I'd love to see a Benchmade AXIS lock knife with a 2.5" blade.
 
marthinus said:
Axis lock Patents as published:

Oct 21, 1999: WO 1999052687 A1

Nov 6, 2002: EP 1071546 A4

Jan 7, 2004: EP 1071546 B1

Apr 27, 2010: USRE41259

The latter is also confirmed by this:

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/RE41259/fulltext.html



Yes. This is done to protect the intellectual property of that person. That person also has preference over someone applying for a similar/same patent.



No. Patents do not work that way.



A new patent number is issued yes, but it extends the original patent, thereby, if the old patent number did expire the new one continues to be in affect and one cannot use the old expired patent.

The research above shows that the newest one in affect is 2010. You are going to have to wait a while for other knives to legally use it.

Do not forget that World Trade Agreements are also in affect. Here are the basics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIPS

Note:
Patents must be granted for "inventions" in all "fields of technology" provided they meet all other patentability requirements (although exceptions for certain public interests are allowed (Art. 27.2 and 27.3)[4] and must be enforceable for at least 20 years (Art 33).

In the patents listed above the Axis lock is described as an invention, so until 2030 those that fall within the trade agreement area either have to license it, go into agreement or do it illegally.
Click to expand...

Wow, you really did a lot of research. Thanks a lot. This is very bad news indeed. So we can expect Benchmade to continue to be the only brand making the AXIS lock for a long time. I still find it weird you can make slight alterations to an invention and extend the patent, you could do this indefinitely..

What I don't understand since it is an US patent why there are no knives with an AXIS lock sold in the rest of the world.
There are so many small European knife makers, why don't they make an AXIS lock.

Thanks again :thumbup:
 
the kid said:
Wow, you really did a lot of research. Thanks a lot. This is very bad news indeed. So we can expect Benchmade to continue to be the only brand making the AXIS lock for a long time. I still find it weird you can make slight alterations to an invention and extend the patent, you could do this indefinitely..
Click to expand...

Pleasure.

Yes someone could do it indefinitely, let me ask you this: If you invented something and have the legal protection to protect your investment and intellectual property and as time goes by and you figure out how to improve your invention would you not do the same thing?

Think about it, there are hundreds of thousands of ideas out there that have made people rich in such a way. There is nothing wrong with it and in a world where there are a lot of corporate enterprises patents like these can protect the little guy as well.

The other side of the coin is true. Enterprises can protect their intellectual property from their competitors and there are numerous lawsuits in a year about these things.

the kid said:
What I don't understand since it is an US patent why there are no knives with an AXIS lock sold in the rest of the world.
There are so many small European knife makers, why don't they make an AXIS lock.

Thanks again :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Two reasons:

First one is my opinion.
1. We are a knife community and we respect each other. We live by a unwritten code of gentleman behavior where you do not do a blatant ripoff, badmouth the other person or steal their intellectual property. This is bad form IMO and not a maker I would support.

2. International trade agreements. Now there are hundreds upon hundreds of international trade agreements in every aspect of the law, in this case patent law and intelectual property and truth be told, I am not going to do that research, I have a hard enough time keeping up with law affecting my field of work.
 
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