When is a khukuri too thick?

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Lately there has been a tendency for the knifemakers of BirGhorkha to make khukuris thicker. Is this a good thing?

My opinion: if a khukuri is well designed, uses good MB spring steel, and is properly zone hardened, it doesn't need to be very thick. I have a Ganga Ram Special that is barely over a 1/2 inch thick at the thickest point. It is well balanced(Bura made this one). If this had extra thickness and weight, balance in my opinion would not be as good.

What do you think?



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Harry

Toujours l'audacite!
 
I generally prefer thicker blades, but, obviously, there is such a thing as TOO thick. Essentially, khuks are chopping tools, so therefore need enough weight to ensure adequate momentum; i.e., chopping power. But beyond a certain point, extra weight becomes a liability, adding to user fatigue and loss of control. I agree with you, Harry, that the Ganga Ram Special strikes the perfect balance between weight and function. I guess if I had to decide between a blade being a little too thin or a little too thick, I would opt for the thicker. I suspect that the reason that khukuris tend to be a bit on the thick side is to compensate for inconsistencies in the quality of available steel. That's my 2 cents' worth.
 
Steven, I think you're right about the inconsistencies in the steel being one reason. I'd like Uncle Bill to send a question to Bura via Gelbu to see how he sees the issue.

Harry
 
Harry
Don't worry no matter what the thickness the Kami will always make a well balanced khukuri.I guess the 11/16 thick AK is what promted this thred.There is a Ganga Ram that is 21";1/2" thick and 3lbs,though the AK is thicker but only 1/2lb more.That is what attracted me to it,I would think that it would weigh closer to 5lbs.I have many Ks so I can chop with a different feel(its what I like).So I guess to me a K is too thick if I look at the specs and say hey thats too thick and leave it for Will Kwan.
Ray

[This message has been edited by RayC (edited 06-01-2000).]
 
Ray, you're right about the 11/16ths inch thick AK being one of the factors behind this question.

As someone who has been handling khukuris longer than most of us, have you ever run across a khukuri that could have been thicker, in order to do the job that its supposed to do?

Harry
 
Harry
No never ran in to a K that did not work as advertised.Never ran into a K that was unwieldy(?)(I think thats the way you spell it)but never had a K more than 6.5lbs either.
This is the biggest AK I'll own,the two AKs I use the most and have used the longest are 16 inchers;one is 3/8"thick,4.5"handle,11.5 "blade the other is,7/16"thick,5" handle and 11"blade,both are around 1.5lbs.They are not monsters but work just fine.

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Ray
 
I agree there is a point of diminished returns on thickness/weight. But just where that point is is hard to say. I guess it mostly depends on who the user is.
 
Some of HI magic lie in HI khukuri's weight. You hold one, feel heavy, want to rest, find a log, put the khukuri onto it, find it tears apart, want to see again, chop it again... iterated endlessly giving you lots of pleasure of chopping and relieved wrist.

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Did you enjoy today?
\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
 
Steven, the guess about the inconsistency in quality of steel is wrong at least at BirGorkha. We use MB leaf spring, at worst leaf spring from a Japanese vehicle knowing that the Japanese can make pretty decent steel, or we use nothing. No Indian made steel and no rails or lesser stuff.

This is one of the things that sets HI khukuris apart from all others. When we say spring steel we mean it.

I have passed the word back that customers here like Sher's work a lot because he makes a heavy blade and does it well. The kamis to listen once in awhile, sometimes, maybe.........

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
 
Uncle, It does my heart good to know that Sher is getting some praise for his work from us all the way on the other side of the globe. He is building a name for himself around here. His work is highly esteemed and his mark is very desirable on a khukuri as far as I'm concerned. With Sher and his brother Kumar both building blades as each of them sees fit, we forumites have the best of the light & quick blades AND the best of the heavy, indestructable power choppers from which to choose. Those two are keepers.

BTW-Is their father Til Bahadur?
 
Thanks for kind words. Each kami has his own niche at BirGorkha it seems. Visiting and part timers round everything out.

I don't think Til Bahadur is father. He is too wealthy to have kids working as kamis.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
 
Compared to many of my blades in my collection, the H.I. Khukuris are thicker. At first I was very surprised, but as time went on and my collection started to grow, the thickness didn't matter any more. At this time the Khukuris are all normal, and my other blades sort of thin. The thick khukuris freak out my friends and co-workers (ones who use other blades, Japanese, Filipino).
I train now with my 19" Ang Khola made by Sher, and also my 25" Sirupati. These use to be very heavy, but now these blades flow like a natural extension on my body. When I go out, my 20" Sirupati accompanies me. Now, this blade feels like a light rattan stick to me. The Kumar Kobra that my friend ordered felt so light, that I almost dropped it! Scary fast indeed!
smile.gif


smile.gif
Excellent blades make me smile!
smile.gif
 
I recently sent back an 18" AK blem made by Sher as I thought it was way to heavy, at least compared to my WWII model. It's heft made me appreciate the WWII even more. When I picked it up, the weight just seemed to be to much to properly control.When I brought it down, it felt like gravity and weight were the reason and my effort was insignificant. Of course, with two hands on the handle and a few fingers on the unsharpened part of the blade, it was a different story, but I still couldn't get over the weight, so I sent it in for a refund. Of course, a few weeks of practice would have strengthened my arms and I would have gotten used to it, but as I live in an apartment in town, I wouldn't have much of a chance to do that anyway. Until I can handle a 15" AK, my choice is the WWII .
 
I can't think of many things, short of a direct hit from a 600-ton asteroid, that'd snap a well-tempered 3/8" spine spring steel khuk. It's not just the high quality material and the excellent heat treatment, it's the whole design and profile of the blade, and the enormous strength inherent in the arched back.

The khuks with half-inch-plus spines are awesome, but (IMHO) overbuilt; "c'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre." The design skills of the kamis compensate for this, to a large extent; they have the knack of being able to balance these monstrous lumps of iron. But (I believe) the lighter khuks are better. It's preferable to have a problem-free design than one with an inherent problem masterfully alleviated.

I'm probably atypical of HI khuk users, since I have small hands and chronic tendonitis; but I find that in spite of the excellent balance, the heavy khuks do eventually become tiring to use after several hours, whereas the lighter ones can be used all day without pain or strain. And, being faster and easier to aim precisely, they cut just as well as the leviathans, if not better.
 
Here is an analogy I sometimes use -- cars and khukuris.

When I was a kid I loved hot rods and made myself a fast car from a 36 Ford with a later Mercury engine of decent size. When muscle cars appeared on the market I got a 65 GTO. I liked strong and I liked big.

But, I don't drive the muscle cars anymore nor do I drive over 100 mph but I still look at the old muscle cars during hot August Nights here in Reno and get a good feeling inside but things change.

Today when I see those nearly 3/4 inch thick khukuris come in I have to love them. They are bigger and meaner than absolutely anything around. But, I just got through looking at an 18 inch Kobra that Bura made while Kumar was down planting corn at his folks and it looks and feels awfully good. It came in just today. It is 1/4 inch wide and weighs one pound -- a midget compared to some of Sher's work.

Did I say that today I drive an old Toyota Celica with an engine displacement of about 2200 ccs? My old GTO had almost 7000!

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
 
I think the wielder determines the optimal spine thickness of the khukuri. Momentum is determined by mass time velocity. When momentum is optimized chopping will also be optimized. With a heavier khukuri the mass is increased but the velocity is decreased. Somewhere there will be an optimum. I have found that I have the optimum efficiency with my 22” Ang Khola. (3.75 LB) I can chop all day with the 22” Ang Khola but I really doubt I can with my Mega Salyan (5.75LB). I guess the thickest khukuri is the one that you can’t pick up.

There is no real point to increasing the spine thickness except to increase weight. For most practical prying the weight is usually levered onto the tip. Blade geometry is more important here. The extra spine thickness will only help when the tip is free to move during prying. Extra thickness does not really prevent binding. A ¼” thick spine on a blade can probably be made to open fast enough to prevent binding, except for splitting and really rotten wood.

Don’t get me wrong, I like my khukuri thick, mainly because the optimal weight for me is 3-4 LB for chopping.

Yes you can bend a .375" thick unhardened piece of steel if it is not too wide, with the leavage available in a 18" khukuri. Heat treat is really important, even for laterial strength.

Will


[This message has been edited by Will Kwan (edited 06-02-2000).]
 
Good information, guys...I wonder where Cliff and ¥vsa are? Like to hear their opinions as well.

Harry
 
I agree with Will about how cool the old 22" AK's were.

I generally like blades to be thick and heavy, but they absoulutely MUST have a thin enough edge to be easily and effectively sharpened.

My 22" AK is in my opinion the best of both worlds: 1/2" thick, 3.75 lbs, shaving sharp. While it does possess the characteristic ridge ofs an Ang Khola, overall it is pretty close to a flat grind and a dream to sharpen.

Anything too thick to sharpen is too much for me.

-Dave

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"...not men, not women, not beasts, but this."
 
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