When swordsmen clash

golok

golok

Joined
Oct 20, 2000
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There are all kinds of swords in existence - modern and ancient.
This issue has led me to ponder over the possibilities of an outcome involving two expert swordsmen from different lands and wielding swords different from each other.

From the point of view of sword-fighting, what would the outcome be between a man using a katana and one using the rapier?

I tried mentally to envision the final outcome of such a meeting but failed to accurately assess the numerous possible endings for either side.

What do you think? I had also thought of the various kinds of swords clashing with one another. The problem with such a scenario is that it's not like chess where you can feed the data into a computer and come up with the numerical possibilities.

With sword-fighting, I like to believe that victory depends also largely on the mental make-up of the swordman himself.
 
This ones been done before - rapier vs. Katana. Two very different fighting styles. The rapier, a thrusting only blade, was not a battlefield weapon. European battlefield swords of the 14th-18th centuries were cut and thrust types. Both rapier and katana were effective in dispatching foes. The best answer I've run into is "who ever is skilled or lucky enough to land the first effective blow." Another common answer I've seen is that equally skilled swordsmen wind up dispatching each other - the rapier man gets in fatal stab wound but the dedicated katana man manages to get in his mortal cut.
 
hmmmm........ :p
so two guys go to a ren fair.... one thinks he's highlander (ya know trenchcoat with katana that can cut through anything underneath) the other is dressed in a cape, shirt with puffy sleeves and pointy boots with a rapier (gentlemen's sword, cutting swords are for barbarians ya know!) thinking hes zorro!

Both are minding their own business until they lock eyes. A staredown ensues. (gangsta style) Da blades come out. Zorro sticks his finger *oooh sorry i meant rapier* toward's Highlander's face, while katanaman is waiting for a chance to cleave zorro in half. :eek:

Highlander cleaves Zorro in half, but not before zorro runs him through the heart.

Zorro dies immediately
Highlander dies 3 weeks later cause of infection. :D
 
Hey Guys,

This has been done to death but my opinion is that the rapier guy would skewer the Katana man in single time. The katana would be parried at the same instant the rapier pierced the Katana guy's stomach.

RAPIERS ARE NOT JUST FOR THRUSTING!!!! WHERE THE HELL DO PEOPLE GET THIS STUPID IDEA. Sorry to shout but this really makes me mad.

Five minutes of actually reading one of the 10 or so rapier manuals available on the web will tell you that the rapier was used for cutting attacks in addition to thrusting.

Rapiers got more point oriented as time went on but even the triangular sectioned smallsword was capable of light but effective cutting to the face, throat and hands.
Cheers
Stu.
 
:eek: :eek: OH NO! Not the rapier vs katana debate! Golok I'm sure you didn't mean to but you brought up the oldest debate known to the sword community with the possible exception of edge vs flat parry or fullers: structural or necessary for the prevention of suction...
 
Stu, the katana-rapier face-off is one sad gap in sword lore. blame this partly on james clavel when he failed to include this scene in "shogun".
 
This has been done to death but my opinion is that the rapier guy would skewer the Katana man in single time. The katana would be parried at the same instant the rapier pierced the Katana guy's stomach.
Click to expand...

I am disappointed in the 'narrow-minded' statement as such. It all depends on the skill of the fighter. I consider myself as a 'katana man', and I've learnt kendo, kenjitsu, iaido for about 9 years. But I WILL never boast that a katana man will cut a rapier man in half in single time.

Don't trust me ? Ask around, see it for yourself.
 
Hi Beluga,

I am not saying that the rapier is a superior weapon. It isn't.

What I am saying is that if Stuart who can only benefit from his Kenjutsu training met Stuart who only had his rapier fencing experience on the duelling field,
Stuart the rapier fencer would make short work of Stuart the Kenjutsuka. The rapier is a unique weapon. If as a sword wielder you understand it then you can beat it. If you don't understand it then you wil probably cop it.
Cheers
Stu.
 
Medical fact - a human being can carry on for up to 22 seconds after blood has stopped flowing to the brain. Just where is the rapier man going to stick the katana man so as to avoid being cut up? There are several accounts of duels where the opponents "ran each other through" several times - and at least one of them lived.
As pointed out in one of the fencing sites, you can carry on fighting after a sword point has been jabbed through your arm - but not if the muscles have been severed.
 
Hi Alidaster,

This is what I mean by a single time defence. A rapier is long enough that a thrust or counterthrust whilst making a defence is possible.
Besides, a true rapier ia around about 50 inches in total length which means that it can hit from outside the rapier guy's distance.
Cheers
Stu.
 
Hi Stu,

You are absolutely right, rapier is much longer than a katana. Rapier can be as long as 50", and a katana is usually between 25-28".

Have you ever heard of nodachi ? This is the extra large katana, can be 45-50", almost the same as rapier.

Beside, a greater range does not mean absolute victory.

Take Tae Kwon Do and Boxing. TKD uses a lot of kicking, the power of the kick is roughly 5 times the power of human's punch. Boxing uses hands (of course), shorter range, less power.

Both have awesome techniques, but when engaged in a real combat, who do you think will win ?

One more thing, I, as a big fan of Rurouni Kenshin (Samurai X), believe 100% that a katana can cut rapier, even gun barrel. :D
(I'm kidding of course)
 
Originally posted by Stuart McDermid
Hey Guys,

Five minutes of actually reading one of the 10 or so rapier manuals available on the web will tell you that the rapier was used for cutting attacks in addition to thrusting.

it is true that a rapier is not just for thrusting. BUT it is also not meant to cut through or hack off a limb. it is more of a cut-when-it's-ideal to set up the killing thrust.
Click to expand...
 
for the battlefield:

18' pike
10' poleaxe
long bow
36" rapier (blade only)
plate armor

for duelling:

36" rapier
parrying sword/dagger

for dark alleys:

short rapier (<30" blade)
 
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