when to transition from diamond to arkansas stones?

rockgolfer

rockgolfer

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Mar 1, 2008
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To start, I can make my knives shave hair from my arm every time I sharpen. I can not tree top hairs but I dont have anything past an arkansas fine stone to even atempt refinement. I will be getting a strop and a black stone soon but my question is not about finishing my edge better. I want to get to that point quicker and am looking to step up into a diamond bench stone. Currently all i have is a smith tri-hone and the medium brick is broken and unusable.


I am looking at a course block as my first choice. Not sure if I should go extra course or not? I currently have mostly 1095 steel but I have cruwear, m4 and ats34. Any help would be appreciated.

If I go with an xcourse stone can I jump to a medium diamond second and then a fine arkansas stone?

If I get the course should I get medium or fine before I jump to my arkansas stone?

Trying to get a little direction as I can only buy 2 stones to start(I am looking at the 8" so double sided is out)

Thanks for any help.
Jeff
 
Personally I would stick with the course. Diamonds are very aggressive & extra course will chew through a blade. Not that you shouldn't get it, but I would work from course to extra fine (if you are looking at the DMT diamond) then swing back around for the extra course.
 
I currently only use arkansas stones from coarse, medium, fine, extra fine - Hard arkansas, extra extra fine surgical black stone
-Gatco Tri Hone-
You can probably jump from coarse / fine diamond stone to the Black stone.

*** when you get your black stone, and the surface is rough, you can break it in, like I did with a fine diamond stone, It feels very smooth now. ***
 
I agree with kniferbro. Course/Fine If you can deal with a 6 inch stone, you can grab a two sided stone on amazon for under $40. I think the extra fine is nice to have as well, as it smooths out the scratch pattern when you start adding some polish to the edge.
 
The right Arkansas stone can cut just as fast as a coarse diamond hone, but if you don't have any diamond plates you should get at least one for stone flattening. The trick with Arks is stone surface preparation. If you rough up the stone surface it will cut like a beast. However they quickly smooth out and slow down if you use any pressure when honing.

If you want a good roughing Ark, get an old Washita or soft Arkansas stone and put on a coarse "open" surface. I like to use loose silicon carbide grit on a granite tile or cast iron lapping plate to lap them to cut fast - about 220- 320 grit works excellent. A sheet of 120 or 220 wet or dry will work pretty good too. A good tip is to keep one side of the stone for coarse work and keep it fresh lapped every few times you use it. Let the other side smooth out over time and you'll have a nice intermediate to finishing stone as well.

The same thing works on the finer Arks, (black and translucent varieties) but they will not cut quite as fast for as long as the Washita or soft Ark varieties. To get the ultimate finish with the finer Arks, smooth/burnish the surface of the stone out with a wide chisel after flattening/lapping. I like to lap mine with about 600 grit loose SiC and then I go over the whole stone surface as evenly as possible with a wide convexed chisel with very light pressure for 15 minutes or so using oil, then use medium pressure for 15 minutes, and then pretty firm pressure for 15 minutes. Keep the surface of the stone lightly wetted with oil as you work. When you're done you'll have a stone capable of finishing a straight razor for a comfortable shave.
 
Ekretz, thanks for the info. I will look into those stones for sure. The trihone I have just has a blue carbide stone for course. I have lots of upgrading to do.
 
Diamond stones would not be my first or second choice for sharpening carbon steels. A NOrton SiC in coarse and fine or India stone would. DM
 
I believe my course stone on my Smith Tri-hone is a SiC stone. Never used India stones before. I am very happy with what I have for 1095. Sometimes when I first get one it needs reprofiling and every once in a while I try out a modern steel. Looking to start at the low end grits and work my way up. Is the course diamond DMT 8"x3" good enough to lap the Arkansas stones? Curious if it is. Still making my mind up in what direction I need to take.
 
I don't know if the coarse DMT would lap the Ark stone, so I can't help you there.

But I was in your same position. I went with the 2x6 double sided DMT in coarse and fine, and I also purchased an extra fine DMT. Honestly, the difference is night and day. I was trying to sharpen S30V on my Smith Tri-hone and was getting nowhere. The DMTs and a leather strop get me a much better edge much quicker. I think you will be very happy with the DMTs and highly recommend them.

I was on a limited budget, like you, and tried to maximize my dollars by getting the smaller DMTs and I have had no issues with the size at all. I'm sure the full sized DMTs would be nicer, but if you're just starting out and not sharpening really big knives, I think 2x6 should be fine.
 
A 2x6" stone will work if you use a good technique. I leveled two of my Arkansas using a coarse DMT and this ate it up. Not much left at the end. I wish I had used my SiC stone. This would have lasted much better and cut about the same. DM
 
No input on the original post, as my finest 2x6 diamond is supposedly 750? grit, and that's really finer than I like my edges.
Only use my ark stones for gun trigger work.
As for flattening non diamond stones, it takes minutes (or less) on a belt sander, starting with a very worn belt, and a light touch.
 
I would steer well clear of Arkansas stones with diamond plates. It will work to lap them flat, but they are so hard that if you have any significant amount of stone to lap they will wear the diamonds and slow the cutting speed of the diamond stone down dramatically.
 
What would you recomend to lap the Arkansas stones with then?



Appreciate all the info guys. It is very helpful :thumbup:
 
When my standard Edge Pro style stones started showing wear, I realized that I had some old rock polishing media from years past kid projects. So I picked up some glass at the local hardwear, and lapped the stones with a teaspoon of the rock grit on glass. At first I tried to just use one grit for all stones, but quickly found my error. Since I had four different grits of polishing powder, I'd start with the fine grit and fine stones. Then add a little coarser powder to it as I work my way down the stones. They end up looking/working good as new (if not better).
 
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