When to use a strop, stone or steel?

T

the kid

Joined
May 5, 2008
Messages
644
I bought a Rough Rider cheapie knife to practice my sharpening on.
I have a very old wet stone and plan to sharpen freehand.
I also have a steel which came with a cheap kitchen knife set.

I want to know when do you use a strop, a stone and when a steel?

And do you guys use a strop or a steel, or is a stone sufficient?

Thanks in advance.
 
Here's how I do it.

Steel - Never. I don't get as good of an edge with them as I do a fine ceramic rod.

Stone - Lower grit stones when I need to repair a damaged edge, or reprofile an edge that's too thick for the intended use of the knife. Higher grit stones when to polish up the edge bevel, and even higher grit stones to apply the microbevel or the final edge.

Strop - To touch up a lightly used edge or to finish a freshly sharpened edge. If the blade is showing any difficulty at removing arm hair stubble then I hit the edge with a fine or ultrafine ceramic rod before stropping. It's not time effective in my experience to try and bring back a somewhat dulled edge with just a strop. It's quicker to use a fine or ultrafine stone for a few light passes per side, then strop if you want.
 
I use a stone when there are reflections on my edge when I look at it under a lamp, and I strop my EDC knives when they don't shave well, I prefer a strop rather than a steel for kitchen use because a steel is just pushing the rolled edge back to shape whereas the strop removes small amounts of metal but still can get it back sharp aslong as it's not too dull.
 
So if I understand correctly.
You use a strop if your knife is getting a bit dull.
And a stone when a strop isn't working any more.

Do you guys use a strop with stropping abrasive?

Also stropping and using a stone will remove metal.
A steel however will not, so isn't it better to use a steel?
 
Is your steel smooth or does it have grooves in it? Using any kind of steel will weaken the edge a little and it will be less durable. I hardly ever strop my knives, I don't usually need to, my knives are sharp enough off of a fine stone that stropping doesn't get a noticeably sharper edge for the time spent.

:thumbup::thumbup: for learning to sharpen freehand.
 
the kid said:
I bought a Rough Rider cheapie knife to practice my sharpening on.
I have a very old wet stone and plan to sharpen freehand.
I also have a steel which came with a cheap kitchen knife set.

I want to know when do you use a strop, a stone and when a steel?

And do you guys use a strop or a steel, or is a stone sufficient?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

To answer your question properly we need to know what size knife, what you'll be cutting, and just how sharp do you want (not need, want) the knife to be?

Each tool has a different function. A stone removes metal quickly. The lower the grit the faster it will remove metal. A strop with compound removes very, very small amounts of metal, refining by polishing the edge put on with stones. A steel burnishes metal. Pushes it back into shape. Think about that.... it pushes metal around. It doesn't sharpen the knife but the result IS a sharper edge because of it. It pushes the sharp edge back in place. (Not exactly what happens, but that 'seems to be' the result.)

Some people have 'need' for extremely sharp edges. (Many of us just 'want' it! :) We don't actually 'need' it. ) Woodworkers for example, who use a 'push cut' with their edges need an edge polished down to 4,000-8,000 grit to get their work done correctly, while a chef in the kitchen would prefer to use knives sharpened to between 400-800 grit for most of their work. They slice food, and for slicing you want an edge with a bit of tooth. The kitchen folk use a steel often, just to 'freshen' the edge while they are working. The steel, especially a smooth one, doesn't remove any metal, but does give a good working edge for kitchen use by straightening up the edge that's been pushed over by use. That edge is NOT good for cutting harder, more abusive material, but it is fine for cutting food. Those folk who need to touch up their edges for cutting harder substances might prefer to do the touch up on a ceramic rod instead. That will remove a tiny bit of metal that's been pushed over and refresh the edge.

Using a strop with compound will result in the finest polish of an edge, it's a whole lot of fun to do, is absolutely necessary for the woodworker and absolutely NOT 'necessary' for almost anyone else! :p We do it because it's fun to bring an edge to that level of sharpness. A barber will strop his straight razor because he is push cutting his customer's beard, and he will do so before every customer. The chef will steel his knife before every cutting job. The outdoorsman might need to use a ceramic rod before each day's use. The knife knut will use first a ceramic rod or stone followed by 2,000-4,000 grit polishing tapes followed by 6,000 grit compound on a rough leather strop, 9,000 grit silicon carbide compound on a smooth leather strop, then 11,000 grit aluminum oxide followed by 1 micron diamond paste on a smooth leather strop followed by 60,000 grit chromium oxide followed by exposure to high winds..... because it's fun. For 98% of our cutting needs we probable could have stopped after the ceramic rods! Let me be clear though... you do need to touch up your edge. This will make it last much longer and reduce to time spent in actually grinding off steel with a coarse stone.

What are you going to cut? How sharp do you need your blade? Then, how sharp do you want your blade? Now go out and spend next month's rent money on sharpening equipment. (Disregard the fact that you could do it all with a couple of sheets of wet/dry sandpaper and take your edge to 4,000 grit.) The goal is to have fun with your sharpening! :thumbup:

Stitchawl
 
Stones, ceramics and steels never touch my blades.

For 'rough' work, re-edging a rolled edge, etc, I use a black (coarse) buffing compound on a hard surface (manila folder cardboard on the kitchen counter).

For fine work/polishing, I use a green compound on the same cardboard and surface.

Most knives nowadays come pretty sharp out of the box and the black-then-green method keeps them shaving sharp.
 
stitchawl said:
What are you going to cut? How sharp do you need your blade? Then, how sharp do you want your blade? Now go out and spend next month's rent money on sharpening equipment. (Disregard the fact that you could do it all with a couple of sheets of wet/dry sandpaper and take your edge to 4,000 grit.) The goal is to have fun with your sharpening! :thumbup:

Stitchawl
Click to expand...

I need it to be sharp enough to cut paper easily. I don't need it shaving sharp. I also like to sharpen them loosing as little metal as possible. (I'm just anal like that)


I was thinking using a wet stone for the job, and maybe stropping them when the blades only need a little touch up. I read about stropping without using a compound on cardboard, leather belt etc.

I did google on sharpening and stropping but there is to much information out there and it's also contradicting each other.

If anyone got some information or a link about stropping without a compound that would be great.
 
If you do it right the first time you won't spend as much money. Get yourself some DMT stones and their diamond paste nuff said.:thumbup:
 
the kid said:
I need it to be sharp enough to cut paper easily. I don't need it shaving sharp. I also like to sharpen them loosing as little metal as possible. (I'm just anal like that)


I was thinking using a wet stone for the job, and maybe stropping them when the blades only need a little touch up. I read about stropping without using a compound on cardboard, leather belt etc.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good plan. Two stones, with grits of roughly 360 and 600-800 will give you a fine edge. But then you have to choose between natural stones, Japanese waterstones, (natural or man-made,) and diamond stones! The diamonds cut fastest, the waterstones cut smoothest, and the natural stones are cheapest. :)

If you want to strop afterwards, instead of plain cardboard use a coated paper catalog such as the Sears catalog or any other with a shiny finish. A Manila file folder will work well too. This finish is actually clay, and that will act as the cutting compound and give you a nice polished edge.

I did google on sharpening and stropping but there is to much information out there and it's also contradicting each other.
Click to expand...

Sharpening is like religion; everyone has his/her own take on what's best. Some simply go by what their parents (or others) have told them is 'true way.' Some have only tried one or two methods and chosen. Other folk have experimented with dozens of different tools and styles, but still have based their decisions on what 'they' want for an edge. You are going to have to try several yourself and decide what 'you' like best. Don't let anyone (except me, of course, :p ) tell you one method is the 'Ultimate' answer. There is no question that some are better than others, but only for some people!

I use a combination of the EdgePro Apex, Sharpmaker, and DMT Aligner, depending upon the knife, the time, and the requirements of the edge. I also use sandpaper, a dozen different leather strops and compounds, and they all work well. They just aren't all needed all the time. Sometimes just a quick stropping on a magazine cover will do the trick....

If you make your choices based on cost, wet/dry sandpaper is the cheapest. If you make your choice based on the finest possible edge, and cost be damned, the EdgePro is it. If you make your choice based on ease of set-up and use, perhaps the Sharpmaker will do the trick. If you want a lower end clamp system, the Lansky or the DMT Aligner fit the bill.
ALL OF THESE WORK AND WILL RESULT IN A GOOD CUTTING EDGE. Now all you have to do is choose which you want to use.
By the way... did you want a convex edge? A scandi grind? How about a double beveled edge? At what angles? :D

Stitchawl
 
There has been some good info posted. If you just want to keep it simple one coarse synthetic stone and one fine Arkansas or ceramic stone will be all you need to push cut paper with ease, you can strop on a magazine cover/belt/ect. and get it extremely sharp. If you have a want to spend the extra time and money to achieve that next level, that is a whole 'nother ball game.

I have gone both ways, I bought all the fancy clamps, stones, strops, compounds and have gotten some super scary sharp edges, but I am to afraid to use them after I did all that work. Those edges are good for passing time and impressing friends, if you carry a knife to use, the edge you get a off a fine stone is plenty.

I enjoy freehand sharpening on a medium to fine Arkansas stone these days, it gets my knife very sharp, it is a very easy on my wallet, has that traditional/no hype/no gimmick/look ma' no hands feel to it, is very easy to tote around, and many of them look stunning. I am not afraid to use the edges put on by my simple stone as I know I can put another one on in seconds. I still keep a couple knives that don't see much use "super scary sharp" just to remind myself just how sharp a knife can get.

Ceramics are also very impressive, but they don't come as cheap or in as many colors and grit ranges the natural stones do. They just don't have that feel to them that makes me want to use them.

I am not a big fan of diamonds, I have tried different brands including DMT and just don't like the feedback they give you, plus they are expensive and don't seem to leave as polished an edge as natural stones do. They are very good for heavy stock removal though.

I like to use an inexpensive SiC stone to set the bevel, a coarse India does pretty good at this task as well, but they are about the same price and the SiC works faster.
 
Thanks for all the replies. :thumbup:
A lot of the info given was to advanced for me, aka to much information ;)
I found when I'm trying something new I should start out simple, and if needed work my way up.

The magazine stropping is good advice I defiantly will be trying that.
I could however not find a tutorial (with pictures) on how to strop. :grumpy:

I also found out that Arkansas stones are really cheap on Ebay.

Any info I need before I buy an Arkansas stone?
For example do I need a fluid like water or oil (I use spit now atm with my old wet stone ;)) do I need fine and medium, are all Arkansas stones the same aka brand doesn't matter, etc.
 
So It's Better to use a Compound when Stropping? I have Been Stropping for years. I Used to 'Steel" it but switched to leather Strop because it gave a more Polished edge, So My Knives are at least as sharp as a Barbers Razor(After I use a Light ceramic rod). I have been recently reading more about it, and Wood worker use a Green Compound. Barber Doesn't use any Compound. I think I would Like to Try The Compound and see how it Compares to a bare Strop.(I'm Sure it's Similar to Rouge) Probably have a dramatic effect. At the very least it will save a Lot of time.
I Know it is Not" Nessary" but it fun to have Big Knife thats sharp like strait razor:-)

I Think If it Like Rouge, at the Very least it would Speed it up and have to make far less passes on strop?

Where can I get the compound, and what is it called?

Should I make another Post about this? I am New to this Place and I might be getting off topic?
 
Last edited:
Take a look at the attached chart. You will notice that Arkansas stones are near the bottom of the chart (slowest honing speed). As an inexpensive place to start I would look for an inexpensive combination medium/fine aluminum oxide hone. I would prefer one from Norton. The diamond hones and waterstones work faster and produce finer edges, but they start at 30 dollars and go up from there.

attachment.php
 
Hammerhead7050 said:
So It's Better to use a Compound when Stropping?
Click to expand...

Not 'better.' Different.
A strop without compound relies upon the natural silicates in the leather to do the polishing. These silicates are most abundant in compressed vegetable tanned leather and do a very good job of polishing the edge. The compounds are 'cutting compounds' and cut the metal more quickly. The various compounds have different grit sizes. The higher the grit number the finer the resulting polish. While you 'can' jump from a small grit size right to a large one without the intermediate steps, it will take much longer to get the desired results. That's like jumping from a coarse stone to an extra fine stone.

I have been recently reading more about it, and Wood worker use a Green Compound. Barber Doesn't use any Compound. I think I would Like to Try The Compound and see how it Compares to a bare Strop.
Click to expand...

The green compound is made from chromium oxide, is very fast cutting and very, very fine grit. About 60,000. It will give an excellent finished edge to your knives much faster than a bare strop. Keep in mind that the barber's straight razor has a completely different edge geometry than our knives, so the razor can take more advantage of the strop than most knives can! The compound helps to broach that disadvantage.

(I'm Sure it's Similar to Rouge)
Click to expand...

What most folks call 'rouge' is the red jeweler's compound. This is made of Iron oxide and while it's great for soft metals like silver and gold, it isn't really hard enough to remove harder steels. We need to use white, black, or green compounds for that.

I Know it is Not" Nessary" but it fun to have Big Knife thats sharp like strait razor:-)
Click to expand...

Ain't that the truth!!! :thumbup:

I Think If it Like Rouge, at the Very least it would Speed it up and have to make far less passes on strop?
Click to expand...

If you use two strops, one with white compound and the other with green, you will really speed up your stropping and get some fantastic edges. The bare strop would come after the green compound and REALLY give you the edge!

Where can I get the compound, and what is it called?
Click to expand...

You'll find it in just about every good hardware store, tool section of department stores, any place that sells table top grinders, many hobby shops, and of course, all over the internet. Most places sell the compounds in 500gm (1lb) bars for use with powered buffers. You do NOT need that much! A bar the size of your thumb will last you for many years of hand strop use.
It goes by various names such as buffing compound, polishing compound, white or green rouge, etc. I once found a set of four small bars, each the size of a candy bar, all together, cheaper than the price of a Big Mac. That was years ago. I still have half of each bar remaining.

Stitchawl
 
the kid said:
The magazine stropping is good advice I defiantly will be trying that.
I could however not find a tutorial (with pictures) on how to strop. :grumpy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sprtvyr7jyQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iXg_8MqoxA

There are lots of good (and bad) tutorials on YouTube. Search by 'stropping' or 'knife sharpening.'

I also found out that Arkansas stones are really cheap on Ebay.
Any info I need before I buy an Arkansas stone?
Click to expand...

If you can afford it, be sure to get new stones. Old ones often are not flat and you need to have a very flat surface to sharpen with. Perhaps you might want to look at man-made Norton stones rather than Arkansas stones. They cut faster, often are cheaper, and you can use water with them instead of oil.

For example do I need a fluid like water or oil (I use spit now atm with my old wet stone ;)) do I need fine and medium, are all Arkansas stones the same aka brand doesn't matter, etc.
Click to expand...

Different strokes for different folks. I prefer to use water. It's not as messy as oil, and I think it allows faster sharpening. Others swear by oil. You will want at least two different grits of stone (coarse and fine) but the brand doesn't have to be the same between them. Again, take a look at some sharpening tutorials on YouTube. Seeing it done will be very helpful when you're just getting started. Keep in mind that not everyone on YouTube is doing it correctly, so watch a few different ones and take the average.

Stitchawl
Click to expand...
 
garyvv said:
Aren't they WHETstones?
Click to expand...

They are. That is the correct name; the word 'whet' meaning 'to sharpen.' But over the years people began calling them 'wetstones' because of the lubrication used as well as the increased usage in the west of Japanese water stones that need to be soaked before use and kept very wet with water during the sharpening process. The developer of the "RazorEdge" sharpening system started questioning the use of various wetting agents (honing oil, water, Golden Retreiver spit, etc.,) and decided that 'his' stones should be used dry!! So I guess you could say that you can use the whetstone dry too! You do still need to use the Japanese waterstones 'wet.' :D

Stitchawl
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top