Where did the term Scales originate?

Joined
Dec 2, 2011
Messages
111
Are the 2 pieces correctly referred to as scales in all cases? What is behind the name, anyone know? I'm learning so please bear with me. Why I wonder do guns have grips and knives have scales? Not that it matters much.
 
The word comes from old German where it meant "a covering or plate". It became the name for the two pieces of material covering the tang of a knife. Most knife nomenclature is from German and Italian, and thus uses older words - Ricasso, Choil, Swedge, etc.
Guns were a later thing, and the modern English term "grip" was applied. You occassionally see the term grip applied to knives , mainly modern tactical styles.
 
The word 'scale' is from the Norse word 'skal', which means 'shell'...so it stands to reason that the hard covering might come to be known as a scale. I suppose that the differences in terminology only have to do with who coined the term, when the term was put into use, and from where that person hailed. Of course, the word then had to be used by many others to be spread into the common lexicon, otherwise, the word would possibly remain localized, or die out from non-use.
-Mark
 
My etymology info shows the word as:
Modern English Scale > Middle English Scale > Middle French Escala > Middle and Old German Skala

Scandinavian words are from similar roots as German. In most languages using the word, it originally meant a covering or plate.
 
Why I wonder do guns have grips and knives have scales? Not that it matters much.

I'm just thinking random word thoughts,...

PISTOLS have grips or handles, RIFLES have grips (unless it's like the M16), KNIVES have handles. Once SCALES are put onto the tang then the entire assembly becomes the handle.

And bladeforum spelled backward is murofedalb.

- Paul Meske
 
I'm just thinking random word thoughts,...

PISTOLS have grips or handles, RIFLES have grips (unless it's like the M16), KNIVES have handles. Once SCALES are put onto the tang then the entire assembly becomes the handle.

And bladeforum spelled backward is murofedalb.

- Paul Meske

Friggin far out and did you know that murofedalb spelled backdwards spells bladeforum. I think your right.
 
Plus, in the old days there were no languages like we have now.
Every village and town had its own dialect, being slightly different from the neighbor village.
There was no 'one german language' of 'one english language'
 
Hmm - never thought to ask that question on scales even though I've often wondered about it. Thanks for the information

Ultimately whether the origins are Norse; Latin; Germanic or French can be hard to resolve since these and other cultures all had a role in the history of England. The English language itself has bastard origins - which is one reason why it is such a difficult language to master for the non-English, and indeed many English speaking people
 
To make it more complex , English is an Indo-European language. About half of the world's population speaks an Indo-European language. Among them words are traded back and forth until it is hard to tell where the word came from originally. Thus Scandinavian skal, German skala, and French escala.
English is predominantly a west Germanic language ( Anglo-Saxon) with another 40% coming from French ( French is a Romance language,which is an Indo-European language branch from lower European roots - Vulgar Latin), and the rest is borrowed from a variety of sources. The Indo-European family of languages spread from the Iranian plains ( Persia) and moved through lower Europe as well as parts of Southern Asia. Words like candy ( Persian - candi = lump sugar) and others are unaltered from Persian. Sugar ( Romance) comes from Latin sucarrum which comes from Persian shakar = sand (ground) candi.

Note: It is nice having a wife whose primary field was as an ethno-linguistist,.......and who speaks Farsi.

Sal-e no mobarak
 
Being a Norwegian-German/Scotch-Irish guy with a French surname that looks Italian, it all makes perfect sense to me :D
 
I used to frequent a pub in Rotterdam where English, Irish and Scotish construction workers used to come.
You've passed your English test when you can actually understand a drunk Scotish brick layer abroad.
 
Och Aye and google Robin Williams on golf! Holy cow Stacy I think it would be easier to catalog what you don't know. I'm thinking it would fit on a 3x5 index card (just one side)! Begs another question: sheath, scabbard and holster? I was reading an email from a customer and he was adding some details to his holster order (I do make holsters too) but then it wasn't making sense so I looked up the hard copy of his order and he'd ordered a custom knife sheath. I've talked to folks that have used all 3 words interchangeably for sheath?
 
Those are fun words:
Scabbard means Sword sheath - Middle English> Old English> Old High German> Latin. In Old German it was Skar Berga - Sword Covering
Sheath - any snug covering ( from a condom to the testa on a seed) Middle English > Old English > German - Scheide - to cover
Holster - a fitted leather carrying case for a firearm - Old English > Old Dutch. In OE - heolstor - to conceal
 
Old English especially has to be read with an eye to context, the spelling is often a phonetic approximation of the writer's own accent when speaking, which can lead to some interesting reading when combined with changes in word useage.
An example, from the Archbishop of Glascow's "Monition of Cursing" against the riding clans who kept the English-Scottish border in a state of constant unrest in the 16th century:

"And thairfoir my said Lord Archibischop of Glascw hes thocht expedient to strike thame with the terribill swerd of Halykirk, quhilk (which) thai may nocht lang endur and resist; and has chargeit me, or any uther chapellane, to denounce, declair and proclame thaim oppinly and generalie cursit, at this market-croce, and all utheris public places.
Hairfor and throw the auctorite of Almichty God, the Fader of hevin, his Son, our saviour, Jhesu Crist, and of the Halygaist... All the malesouns and waresouns (curses) that ever gat warldlie creatur sen the begynnyng of the warlde to this hour mot licht apon thaim. The maledictioun of God, that lichtit apon Lucifer and all his fallowis, that strak thaim frae the hie hevin to the deip hell, mot licht apon thaim...."

The Scots border accent is fairly clear, if you can make any sense of it in the first place. Interesting that some words are spelled flawlessly according to modern standards, while "them" is alternately spelled "thame" and "thaim", both spellings sometimes occurring in the space of a single sentence. This written by a bishop around 1525, presumably one of the more literate members of society at the time.
 
It's interesting how words get corrupted in common usage through the years. Thanks for the info Stacy, now I gotta go tie my rifle scabbard or rather sheath to my saddle, coyote scouting the calves. You're right fun words.
 
Justin your post just popped up while I was typing. Many of the words in your quote from the Archbishop are still in common use today at least in the fishing villages of the East Neuk of Fife, Scotland where I went to highschool (Waid Academy, Anstruther, Fife). Not only are they used and pronounced as you qouted but still spelled that way. Words such as thaifoir, thocht, nocht, lang, gat, licht, from your quote, all were common usage. I sat and passed an English Higher SCE (Scottish Certificate of Education) that year (1976-77). Interestingly we had to learn and were tested in both English and Scots or in common usage braid Scots. So not only did we read Hamlet but also (from memory): Oh to be at Crowdenknow when the last trumpet blahs and see the deid com louping orre the ol grey waas, muckle men with tousled beards we'll scamble frae the crokkit clay with a feck of swearing.....don't remember who wrote it. Anyhooos took a girl from Pittenweem (the next village oeer) to see a movie in St Andrews (All The President's Men, not much of a date flic but it was the only thing playing). During the date she told me that all her friends had told her to "speak proper" so that I as an American would be able to understand her. Cool stuff. Dinna ken if thae ol Archbishop hae thoucht he spoke Old English though. Stacy would know better than I. Cool quote where did ya find it?
 
Last edited:
I'll tell you some fun tales about my mother ( long passed away).

She was an engineering student when the war broke out (WW2). She felt it wrong to go to to a university while people were fighting the war, so she took a job with a chemical company doing lab work on paraffins,(which were used in napalm and flame throwers in the war).
When the war ended, Dad was in the Pacific on the Missouri when the truce was signed on the ship sept. 1945. He came home two months after the signing. They got married a month later, and of course, she was pregnant right away. Three months later, Dad was sent to England to help with medical treatment and transport of the wounded from both sides. He was German born, and spoke fluid German, so he was especially useful with wounded prisoners being repatriated. He came home to assist with the delivery in Sept. 1946, and after two weeks went back to England. Mom could not come until my older brother was 4 months old. At the end of a very exhausting trip across the Atlantic, nursing a 4 month old, she arrived in London. Dad had made friends with a well to do British couple who wanted him to bring his wife and baby over for dinner when she arrived. They set up a guest room so she could get a good nights sleep before moving into the tiny apartment over a pub that dad had found. There were all sorts of delays ( as was the case with everything at that time in London), and it was ten at night when they got there. They had held dinner, and even though all she wanted was sleep and someone to take the baby for a few hours, she sat down to eat. After a while of talk about the baby and the trip, the hostess turned to Dad and said, "Egon, Mimi is certainly a saucy lass." The husband chimed in with, "And homely,too." Mom burst into tears and ran from the room. Shortly, it was all sorted out. Saucy meant bright and spirited, and homely meant the perfect homemaker/wife.
The people became my older brothers God-parents, and after a short stay in the cold one room apartment, arranged for the family to live in a mansion on Hyde Park that belonged to friends of theirs. The owners wanted to leave London until the town returned to some semblance of order. The house would have to be turned over to the housing board if it was not occupied, and there was no such thing as a storage warehouse left standing. So they let Mom, Dad, and my brother live in the monstrous house with all the furnishings and effects until they returned to England two years later. Dad arranged to be transfered back to the states at the same time.

Fast forward to 1963. There were three teen age boys by then, Mom decided to return to college, and received her degree in 1966, then went after her masters in Old English literature. Her specialty was Falstaff. She wanted to study the oldest copies and other books available, so they were transfered from other universities to Old Dominion. She had to learn to read and speak Old English to understand them, so I became her study partner in OE. We would go to the research section at the library, where she was allowed to study the ancient books (we had to wear white gloves). I would read them to her in OE and she would transcribe by hand what I read. I got pretty good at speaking pre-Elizabethan English.

Most of the OE is long forgotten now, but the great memories are still there.
 
Back
Top