Where Did They Put That Pen??

[waynorth]

I have been studying my Barlow accumulation, trying to discover what is traditional and what is not. A detail has come up with some friends of mine about secondary blades, usually pen blades as follows;
"Was the pen blade placed behind the main blade or in front of it", and "why" for either situation!!
There seems to be an even mixture, with a lot of older Case knives having the pen "behind". Here are examples.
Case XX and Tested

CaseXX USA

Schrade

OVB

Camillus-made (all in front)

Imperial

Utica-made

As you can see, there are about equal amounts of Front and Back pens, depending on the maker.
I am interested in seeing what you may have, and hearing arguments or evidence about which is better. Please chime in. All opinions are invited; here's your chance to debate an age old subject!!

 

[jackknife]

And then you have the nes with no pen blade at all. I noticed once that the older Russell's have a high number of single blade barlow's.

I always wondered why, in a working knife like a barlow, why not replace the pen blade with a awl?

But as to blade placement, it may be just luck of the draw or which side of the bed the designer got up on that morning.

Carl.

 

[Doug Add]

I prefer the pen in front, but don't know that I could make an argument for it above personal preference (I like having the pulls on the same side). I only have two barlows, and both have the secondary blade in front of the main clip blade.

First, the Böker Tree Brand

Second, my rehandled Colonial. The pen was reprofiled to a wharncliffe, but it also is in front of the main clip blade.

 

[ken erickson]

From a makers point of view I like the pen on the mark side. I like to be able to hold the knife and choose either blade without turning the knife around. It also gives makers a chance to practice that neat pen swedge that affords better access to the pull on the master! When the pen is on the pile side there is no reason for the swedge.

 

[Stich2442]

My personal preference is behind the main blade, my reasoning is if you have to lower the kick on the main, you are now forced to lower the kick on the pen to accommodate the nail nick on the main blade. I can also open the pen blade one handed when it is behind the main by holding my knife in my right hand put thumb nail in nick and hold the handle against my leg and open with a little leverage. I will say they look better with the pen in front, but I'm going for function.
Pete

Camillus #51 in front

 

[Gevonovich]

I have three Barlows and all have the pen in front of the master. I prefer that arrangement.
As to why, I believe the design decision on placement was two fold. One is ergonomic and the other aesthetic. Well maybe three fold, but any engineering and build considerations will be left alone for now.
From an ergonomic viewpoint, placing the pen in front of the master makes access to it much more ergonomic and motion efficient. One does not need to turn the knife over in your hand to open the secondary blade which then requires a second motion to orient the blade for cutting. Aesthetically the secondary blade simplifies the lines when placed behind the master. Although aesthetically , I find the placement of the pen in front of the master pleasing to my eye

 

[Modoc ED]

But as to blade placement, it may be just luck of the draw or which side of the bed the designer got up on that morning.
Carl.

That's not the case Carl - not at all. Pen blade placement on a barlow knife was well planned and purposeful.

Here is a ten-dot (1970 manufacture) Case Barlow with the pen blade behind the clip blade. Note the nail nick in it's usual placement.

Here is an XX (1920 - 1940 manufacture) Case Barlow with the pen blade in front of the clip (main) blade. Notice how the nail nick on the clip blade is moved way forward along the clip of the blade allowing access to the nail nick for opening. Otherwise, the nail nick would be behind the pen blade and not accessible for opening. That is advanced planning.

Steve Pfeiffer covers this a bit in his "Collecting Case Knives". Although not uncommon it was not common for the pen blade to be placed in front of the main blade at least on Case knives.

The two knives I've pictured perfectly illustrate "ken erickson's" point about same side/opposite side nail nicks

 

[waynorth]

Thanks for the comments thus far, guys! I knew I'd get some good comments around these parts!
(obscure pun intended!)

It doesn't seem like a hard and fast rule either way.
Case's practice of moving the nick out close to the tip seems to work, but looks awkward, to my eye, however well it works. My inner prejudice speaking!
Ken, I enjoyed your reasoning - anything to justify a swedge!!
I admit, I love that long deep swedge on the back of a pen blade!!

 

[DeadFall27]

One thing that I would like to address...am I the only one here that doesn't flip the knife around to access a pen blade on the pile side? I just use my left middle finger to catch the nail nick.

 

[greg c]

I'll take the pen blade in front and here's why: I tend to leave the pen for detail work and use the main blade for general chores. Holding the knife in my right hand that pen blade is now closest to my thumb and eyes and that makes detail work easier for me.

 

[jackknife]

I'll take the pen blade in front and here's why: I tend to leave the pen for detail work and use the main blade for general chores. Holding the knife in my right hand that pen blade is now closest to my thumb and eyes and that makes detail work easier for me.

Ya know ,Greg, I hadn't thought of that. Makes sense when you think on it some.:thumbup:

Carl.

 

[T. Erdelyi]

The fact that you have a collection of Barlows when I only have three makes me envious.

The only examples I have are the Queen/Schatt Morgan Forum Barlow, (no pen) and a Colonial with the pen in the front and an Imperial the same way.

Great lookin' Barlows everyone, if I had to pick a medium to large pattern to collect, the Barlow would be it.

 

[pertinux]

One thing that I would like to address...am I the only one here that doesn't flip the knife around to access a pen blade on the pile side? I just use my left middle finger to catch the nail nick.

(I see that hand!)

I was getting ready to write roughly the same thing, wondering if I should perhaps add pictures to illustrate. Your words above are descriptive enough that I'll simply agree.

My sampling of barlows is smaller than others, but comparing two of the same size (if different main blades), my ebony and horsecut antique bone GECs, I clearly prefer having the secondary blade on the opposing side, at least in use (opening it as described above, with my middle or ring finger).

(The horsecut's secondary is a clip blade, but the principle is the same.)

Aesthetically, however, I prefer the look of the secondary blade and its nick in front:

I'll take the pen blade in front and here's why: I tend to leave the pen for detail work and use the main blade for general chores. Holding the knife in my right hand that pen blade is now closest to my thumb and eyes and that makes detail work easier for me.

Hmmm, good point, and one I hope to investigate further. I'm still working on moving from having to using, and intend to undertake a simple whittling project (which might turn out to be, "Shave This Stick") with a few of my knives in turn, to better discover my real-time preferences. For now, I've mostly just learned that I want to get better at sharpening.

~ P.

 

[glennbad]

I also favor the pen blade in the front. it just seems un-natural and awkward to have to turn the knife over to get the blade out.

Oh and BTW Charlie, that Case Tested in the first pic...that is so sweet! That bone just sings to me. (I'm not sure which song, though)

Glenn

 

[Stich2442]

First I would like to state that this statement I am about to make is not meant to be sarcastic or a dig, just a statement at face value.

I work with so many different tools in the course of a day from hammers, chisels, screwdrivers, different types of tin snips, folding bars, crimpers, flanging pliers, levels, squares, circular saws, hammer drills, hole hogs, right angle drills, impacts, sawzalls, etc. the mechanics of open and closing a pocket knife is something that I really don't think about, no matter what knife I am carrying I really don't even have to look at it to open the blades or choose a blade it's automatic.

Waynorth your first pic, third knife down the bone is exquisite, I also like your Schrade with the sheepfoot, very nice collection.
Pete

 

[pertinux]

Oh and BTW Charlie, that Case Tested in the first pic...that is so sweet! That bone just sings to me. (I'm not sure which song, though)

Waynorth your first pic, third knife down the bone is exquisite....

I'll third that. Wow.

~ P.

 

[Astrogator]

For what it's worth here is my theory on this:-

If you are right handed, then the pen blade is behind the main blade.

If you are left handed then the pen blade is in front of the main blade.

The thinking behind this is that you will then be able to obtain a more controlled cut with the main blade, in other words you will be able better to see what you are cutting with the main blade.

The converse also applies.

This is my laymans thought on the matter anyway.

 

[Modoc ED]

Frankly, whether the nail nicks of a knife are on the same side or not matters little. As some have said, use the nail of the opposing finger to open the blade with the off-side nick or just turn it (the knife) over and open the secondary blade. How hard can it be?

 

[waynorth]

Thanks for the nice comments on the knives, folks. It has taken many years to accumulate some of them.

Practically: I am coming around to your attitude, Ed. How hard is it to find the pen, wherever it is?

Aesthetically: I like to see the blades stacked, small in front of large, presenting me with a choice of cutting tool.

Overall: there seems to be no right or wrong way - only personal preference.

I am ever grateful for all the thoughtful responses from all of you, and invite more if anyone wishes to add some.

 

[richstag]

Thanks for the nice comments on the knives, folks. It has taken many years to accumulate some of them.

Practically: I am coming around to your attitude, Ed. How hard is it to find the pen, wherever it is?

Aesthetically: I like to see the blades stacked, small in front of large, presenting me with a choice of cutting tool.

Overall: there seems to be no right or wrong way - only personal preference.

I am ever grateful for all the thoughtful responses from all of you, and invite more if anyone wishes to add some.

I like the pen in front of the main blade. Sure, how hard can it be, but when it comes down to what feels more natural for me, pen in front is the ticket.

I also want to thank Ken for adding in the info about the swedges. I always wondered on my Case/Bose Dogleg, why is the swedge on one side so much larger, and now I know! So many little things to learn about here. Seems to me most small features must be more thought out than it may appear on the surface.

Kevin