Where do I find really great sharpening tools for large knives?

S

Sid Post

Joined
Oct 14, 1998
Messages
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I am looking for something to sharpen and maintain large knives. I have plenty of pocket sharpeners to use when they need a touch up while out and about. My target price is preferably in the ~$100 range but, I am willing to spend more for superior equipment/stones. My budget does have practical limits but, much higher then my $100 target.

My initial search was on the Norton Abrasives website but, I was unable to locate their large diamond bench stones. Two years ago I remembered their display of large flat stones mounted in wood that were aproximately 2"x8" mounted in wood for ~$100. One in a good cutting medium and a second in fine for polishing the edge seems like a good option.

At this pricepoint, perhaps I should consider an EDGE PRO system. How effective are they on large knives? How does the system hold up to heavy use? Do the tapes and stones last long enough to be cost effective?

Are their powered system I should consider (please don't suggest the cheap powered systems similar to what you find on a can opener).

Are water stones an unreasonable choice?

TIA!

Stay Sharp,
Sid
 
I have both an Apex and Professional for EdgePro. They are the best sharpening system I have encountered, you will not got wrong in purchasing one.

The largest knife I have is an RTAK which has a blade over 10". I have sharpened it on both models although it is easier with the Pro (the base is adjustable for angle). Ben Dale, the maker of the EdgePro, has told me that he has sharpened swords and I see no reason why this would not be possible.

Hope this helps.
 
Companies selling high end wood working tools often sell good sharpening tools. For example, Garrett Wade lists oil stones, water stones, float glass, powdered medium and low speed sharpening wheels. They list natural stones, synthetic stones and diamond hones. If I was sharpening expensive tools I would not use a standard grinder or the side of a brick. The same goes for sharpening my good knives.
 
I've sharpened an 18" machete with my Apex, it did the job just fine. Edge Pro is definitely top of the line for manual sharpening. It's plenty durable, mine has been going strong for over a year now. I don't sharpen constantly, but I do use it fairly often, and I used it intensively until all of my knives (and my parents knives, and my relatives knives, and my friends knives, and, well, you get the picture) were sharp. The fine grit stones are very durable, but if you have a lot of really dull knives you may want to invest in two coarse stones and an extra medium stone. These wear fast, but if you're using the system on the same few knives you only need the coarse stones once. After that they aren't neccesary. I think I read once that the coarse stones are usually good for about 20 knives or so, but I wore mine out by making a CS Vaquero plain edged and double beveled. That was after I reprofiled about 5 other knives, so considering all that was done and how well it worked the stone was a good value. My advice would be to bite the bullet and get an Edge Pro. I seriously doubt you'll be disapointed, and the sticker shock wears off after you use it a while.
 
I bought an EdgePro but found it was just too slow and too much work for LARGE knives at Rc58-61 hardness, especially if you have to use it to lay in the primary edge bevel.

I would suggest you think about a small belt grinder, something like the Kalamazoo 2 x 48". If you get it without the motor, and get your own motor second hand, it will run you maybe $225 all up. With this setup you can use the platen if you want for grinding bevels, or remove the platen to apply convex edges on a slack belt. A lot more versatility here than with any "sharpening" system I know of.

Oh, and if you want to grind a knife or two, you can do that also.
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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
The Tom & Jerry Show
 
IMO, the only thing faster and more efficient to use on a long blade than an Edge Pro system would be a decent belt grinder, with price in about the same range as a "Pro" model: $300+. Of course, you can get into the Edge Pro Apex model for under $150.

Downside with the belt grinder is that there is a tendency to take a little more steel off each time you sharpen, than with a fixed system. You also have to be careful to dunk the blade in water between passes, so that you don't heat the blade up and affect its temper.

Upsides with the grinder are:

1)You can restore a razor-edge on an 18+ inch blade with just two or three light passes per side, then strop and you're done; and

2) By using the belt without a platen, you can apply and restore convex edges much more efficiently than with flat bench stones.

For restoring dull edges, I've come to depend heavily on my belt grinder. To avoid removing too much steel over time, I use diamond and ceramic "steels" to re-align and touch up edges between sessions on the belt. This approach works great for me on everything from 3" blade folders to 18" blade machetes.

-w
 
Hilarious. Jerry, you posted while I was composing mine. If I'd known you were responding, pard, I'd have held my neophyte tongue in deference to the master.

Jerry was the one who showed me the light, so just let me add that I'm a Believer.

-w
 
Will, careful how you use that word, "master". Everytime I think I've "mastered" something, I get handed a king size helping of humble pie and am made to wonder if I know anything at all.
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I agree completely with your strategy of alternating the grinder with sticks or a steel for touchups. With good blade steel, periodic touchups are usually all it takes in normal use.

------------------
Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
The Tom & Jerry Show
 
Jerry--

Humble as you are, please forgive my insistance.

Your unyielding curiosity and incessant experimentation with blade geometry and materials, with no thought of gain other than the knowledge itself, makes anyone who has had the honor of working with you know what a pure student of the blade you are.

In my humble opinion, only a true student can become a master. And only a true master has the perspective to grasp the scope of how much more there is to learn.

By that definition of "master", which is the best one I know, the term fits you fully.

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The skarb (www.skarb.com) comes with a basic clamp which will sharpen knives with a spine thickness up to 3/16" There is an optional clamp which will hold thick-spined blades from 3/16" to 1/4". This would include larger bowies, hand-forged blades and commercial blades like the Cold Steel Master Hunter and big bowies. Only one set-up. There is no need to move the blade, no matter what length.

We have sharpened blades up to 14" in length. In the Blade Magazine test, Kim Breed sharpened knives from a 2.5" folder to Jimmy Bruckner"s massive widow maker.
 
Another vote for a belt sander here! U am a newbie maker and I was petrified to sharpen a knife on my grinder, but having done it I rarely use anything else. I use my sharpmaker for touch-ups, but when it comes time to sharpen, I use my grinder, buff using my drill press and then do a couple of passes over the Spyderco white stones on my sharpmaker to ensure no burr exists. Never have I gotten sharper edges. Slack belt sharpening is awesome.

I don't think you NEED a $200+ grinder for this though. Any belt sander will do for sharpening. The Kalamazoo that Jerry mentioned is a good all around grinder. Like he said, you can sharpen with it, make a few knives with it, and do a lot of other chores with it too. A cheap 1x30 will sharpen as well as the Kalamazoo, but it won't be as versatile for other chores.

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"Come What May..."
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Crayola:
A cheap 1x30 will sharpen as well as the Kalamazoo, but it won't be as versatile for other chores.</font>
Click to expand...

A hardware store near my home sharpens customers' knives with a 1x30 and does a good job. Only question I'd have would be what variety of grits are available? A nice thing about the 2x48" is the availability of Trizact belts up into the 1200 grit and above range. Of course, you can get a good slicing edge with a 100-grit belt, but for a more polished edge the higher grits are nice.

-w

 
Using a grinder sounds intriguing. Where would one find the Kalamazoo grinder that Jerry mentioned? For someone that never used a grinder before, what suggestions would you have on using one to sharpen knives?

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Ed Woo
 
At Jerry's suggestion, I bought my Kalamazoo 2x48" belt grinder from Sheffield Knifemakers Supply in Florida (904) 775-6453 (email: sheffsup@totcon.com). His suggestions included the following belts: 120 grit and 320 grit 3M belts (SiC) for primary grinding, and 700 and 1200 grit Trizact belts for finishing.

Here are some basic instructions Jerry started me off with. (Hopefully, he'll post here and add whatever info he deems necessary):

Jerry's words:

"I like my grinder at my solar plexus while I grind standing up. That's where you
can brace your arms into your sides and get some of the motion by rocking
side to side. It gives good control. I sharpen edge down, which is best
anyway since you can better see the angle you're holding. It isn't necessary
to see the edge, and since you will be dipping the blade in water after
every pass or two you have plenty of opportunity to see how it's going.
Also, if you are looking at the edge you can't see what really matters
which is the angle. If the machine tilts, you can tilt it back a little
to let you see the side of the edge, but that's all you need at best. Remove
the platen. Since you are sharpening and not grinding an edge, you only
need the slack belt. You also don't need the tool rest.

"Mount the grinder as close to the edge of the table (or whatever) as
you can. Overhanging a bucket of water is ideal for several reasons. You
will be dipping the blade in that water a lot, plus it will catch most
of the steel dust coming off the belt at the bottom. I suggest you start with some old kitchen knives.

"I never use gloves. You need to feel the heat, but in sharpening almost
any appreciable heat is bad. If the blade is warm, the edge is much too
hot. Dunk the blade in water after every pass on the belt. Those Trizact belts are not water proof, so wipe the blade after dipping it in water.

"I'd suggest you start with 320 grit, though 120 grit is easier to see the results with. If you have a knife to waste, try the 120.

"Getting it right at 320 grit, followed by a leather strop, is where you need to go first. Most folks describe the angle as being much shallower than it actually is. Start around 30 degrees and see what you get. You can take it down from there after some practice."

END QUOTE

These instructions have served me very well. I now typically lay in an edge as suggested here, and from then on if I touch up an edge with the belt at all, it's just with the 1200 grit Trizact belt and then a leather strop to polish off any remaining burr.

One other aspect that might be of interest:

I mentioned to Jerry that I had a cheap Pakistani bowie given to me as a birthday gift by a well-meaning in-law, and that I intended to practice sharpening on it. He suggested I try changing the edge grind from hollow to a full convex edge. After doing as he instructed, this knife will now push-cut through ½" sisal rope--it is an embarrassment that I have very few knives that will out-cut it, but serves to illustrate how important edge geometry is to cutting efficiency. These were Jerry's instructions to me for applying a convex edge with the belt grinder:

"Remove the platen. Using a 120 grit belt, hold the blade at as shallow an angle as you can, and remove the shoulder on the bevel. Switch to a 320 grit belt and hold the blade against the belt firmly at an angle very slightly higher than you used for the 120. You'll see that you have begun the convex edge, with the edge developed to within just a little bit of the knife edge. Switch to the 700 grit belt and increase the angle again (just slightly), and lean into the belt a little harder. You likely will have created a wire edge at this point if not, just repeat the same angle on the same belt a few times. If you can see that you're not getting to the edge, very slightly increase the angle and repeat. It takes some practice to get it even along the full length of the blade but you'll get there, and you will never believe it's the same knife. Touch it up with the #16 (1200-grit Trizact), strop, and you're done."

END QUOTE
 
If you're looking for hand sharpening equipment check out Lee Valley Tools (www.leevalley.com) which has an extensive range of hones from diamond to Japanese water stones, plus assorted jigs, gadgets and a very good book on sharpening. They mail order and are Canadian which means you pay in the Canadian Peso (also known as the 'looney', to reflect current federal fiscal policies): at 65 cents US it's a bargain!
 
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