Where should the balance point be on a Bowie knife? Or other types of knives?

B

Big Ugly Tall Texan

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Jan 27, 2006
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107
Someone asked me about the balance point on my new knives so I've been checking them.

On the Laredo Bowie and the MGC Bowie, it's about an inch in front of the crossguard.

On that big un, it's about an inch and a half in front of the crossguard.

Where should it be?

By the way, when I take that Cold Steel Laredo Bowie out and look at it, I get tears in my eys. That is one beautiful piece of workmanship. At the same time, just the PHOTOS of some of the custom knives you guys make get me wet eyed.

I guess I have the disease BAD, BAD, BAD.
 
I saw it an commented on it. I'm talking about some of the custom knives that make that one and mine look like they were made in a shop class.
 
stetdamas.gif

This one balances right at the guard :D
I like the BP to be at the front of the index finger to a finger width in front of the guard.
Further forward and the feel like an axe and further back they feel like a tool.
Hunters, for me, should balance further back in the hand so you can use your thumb and index finger without the knife tipping forward out of your hand.

Of course, JMHO & YMMV
 
Ebbtide,
You have Toby Keith's hat AND HIS BOWIE!:eek: :D
Seriously,nice S-guard!:cool:
I like the BP at the guard or a little in front as well,feels better,works better.JMO.
How big is it?Blade length. :confused:

Doug :)
 
I think it depends on your personal preference and the knifes intended usage. A 50/50 balance is good for throwing knives, and blade heavy knives are good for chopping. I cant think of a benefit for a handle heavy knife, its not my thing.

As far as HOW blade heavy it is, well... dang I never really thought about it. I do like my knives to have a little heft to them.
 
Big Ugly Tall Texan said:
Where should it be?
Click to expand...

The center of mass is important for static work, where the knife isn't moving quickly, so light cutting/carving, it is mainly an issue with fatigue as your wrist has to oppose the forward weight. For larger knives which are actually used to cut dynamically with a chop or heavy/fast slice, more important is the mass distribution, specifically the moment of inertia, as well critical is the combination of these two properties and how they combine to form the impact nodes which are the point(s) along the blade which give little feedback to the hand when subjected to heavy impact.

Where the mass should be distributed on a large knife (not simply the center of mass) is dependent on how it is used, specifically which part is the desired impact point, and the critical worth of static vs dynamic cutting. Too many people, including makers, promote the viewpoint Ebbtide notes which just focused on center of mass, this is similar to reducing cutting ability to just being dependent on sharpness and ignoring the effect of geometry.

An axe doesn't work like it does simply because the center of mass is forward of the grip, it has a large moment of inertia due to its mass distribution/focus and more importantly has an impact node in the bit and unlike blades has the point of maximum speed also be one of maximum inertia for impacts. On a bowie and long knives in general these are usually two very different points, near the handle you hit with a lot of inertia, and out on the tip you hit with a lot of speed.

A bowie which was balanced for similar cutting as an axe (similar only in a loose sense) would have an impact note in the tip which would be achieved by a heavy tang taper and pommel weight, the center of mass could be adjusted for preference on static cutting and impact node flexibility influenced by grip positioning.

Tanto Fiend said:
I cant think of a benefit for a handle heavy knife, its not my thing.
Click to expand...

Mainly they are used to make the knife more secure in hand as it will want to stay there even in a very loose grip.

-Cliff
 
That hat may be older than Toby Keith, got it in '77 :D
The blade is 10" long and 3/16" at the thickest point.
Once you get past 8-9" there is a whole new feel to a knife.
The knife pictured is very quick in hand.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
....the impact nodes, which are the point(s) along the blade which give little feedback to the hand when subjected to heavy impact.
-Cliff
Click to expand...


I'm not quite sure this is entirely correct... The guys on swordforums usually call these "harmonic nodes" to differentiate them from the rotational impact nodes. With good balance, impacts still should not transmit a lot of shock or pain to the hand. But take for example a blade balanced so the distal impact node is at the tip with a corresponding rotational center at the guard. An impact at the tip would still cause the handle to rotate, but since its rotating at the guard, the force would be spread across all the fingers. Likewise with an impact halfway down the blade, the rotational force would be spread across the whole palm. Your hand is still there to resist the counter torque, and therefore drives the blade deeper, but since the force is spread out and your hand is right next to the rotational center, it should not be uncomfortable. Whereas an impact at the harmonic node would not really be felt at all... *I think*. I might need to ponder that one some more... But I think the main problem comes when the rotational center is very far away from the hand, which can happen very, very easily.

But overall, I'm in agreement that it just ain't right to try summing up balance by saying where the center of mass happens to lie.
 
It is just definations, I would define an impact node as the point where it would produce a node, which is just a no amplitude point, in the grip, meaning that it would be comfortable in the hand if the blade was impacted there, I would see rotational node as an equilivant term, since that is what those guys are using I'll switch to the same thing.

I would caution in general though about the issue of rotation just forward of the choil in a knife, considering utility use. I have knives like that and you can't use them for batoning. The rotation will be so severe with heavy batons that the hand isn't capable of resisting it, and this is compounded by the fact that you are trying at the same time to press the handle down into the wood with the blade, or at least stop it from rotating back massively.

You can feel the node point directly because on long grips like the Ratweiler if you put your hand back it gets *massively* uncomfortable, but if you shift it right forward so you are almost on the node (you can't quite reach it as it is actually in the wood), the shock is heavily reduced, but still too hard to handle even only about an inch infront of the grip.

Chas mentioned awhile back about the shock of guys on horses using sabres which I think would be even worse if you add in the speed of the horse and the other guy on foot also running towards you or still better on horseback and your sabre either plowing into him, or something hard like a stout pole or another weapon.

The raw shock delivered to the weapons themselves is insanely high, even remove the horses and just have guys running at each other and the weapons hitting is crazy high. You can see this yourself if you for example do tomahawk throwing stationary or with a run off and see the difference it makes, now double that for two guys moving.

-Cliff
 
i would recommend checking what james keating [or other bowie knife-fighting specialist] thinks on the subject as far as fighting bowies are concerned
 
Where should the balance point be?
Well in short, find where it feels best to “you” and this is where it should be.
The Laredo Bowie is a very nice knife and it cuts well to :D
 
The technical aspects of balance has already been discussed.

I personally like the balance to be different depending on the situation. On a true Bowie, 1inch in front of the guard gives the piece more blade weight for improved chopping and impact cuts. HOwever, if the BP is any further forward, I find my arm fatigues quickly with prolonged chopping. IMHO, a large chopping knife should also have more weight distributed throughout, ie.- the handle should also have some weight, so regardless of balance point, the entire unit will have more inertia when chopping.

On a "Fighter" bowie, I prefer the BP at the guard on just in front of the index finger hold, that way the blade is "Fast" and manouverable. Good distal taper on the blade achieves this better than any other design feature. It is very difficult to achieve effective and whippy back-cuts with a sharpened swedge using a blade heavy knife.

I like my hunters to balance on the index finger hold point - ie.- a "weightless" and again, manouverable blade for finer work, and an extension of the hand.

Tools are the one cutting item I don't mind with a handle heavy feel - I like the way it sits in my palm even with only a very light grip on the handle, or held like a pencil. In any case, many tools only have a short blade portion. One hunting knife that is similar is a caping knife. Many hunters I make knives for say they use a caper like a pen, so I design my caping knives that way.

Enough rambling. :D Jason.
 
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