Where the heck is my........

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DOC-CANADA

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Threads on contents of survival kits seem to be a regular occurrence on this forum and others. What I would truly like to see is a thread that starts with an accepted contents list and item by item, examine substitutions that can be found in nature. To make this clear: an example: needle and thread - in my part of the world, this can readily be substituted by a thorn from a Hawthorn shrub (Crataegus spp.) and natural fibre - Milkweed (Asclepias spp.), Indian Hemp (Apocynum cannibinum), etc. From what I've read, Yucca (Yucca spp.) can be used for both needle and thread in the Southwest.

By this, I don't mean to denigrate predesigned survival kits, it's just that the more substitutions you are aware of, the more prepared you are to deal with an emergency. Also, it helps you to become less isolated from good old Ma Nature. Any thoughts?

Doc
 
AWESOME post!
I was just thinking the same thing while reading posts about survival kits.

I just moved from Toronto to BC, there are now bears in my backyard, and I haven't ever slept outside. Outdoor survival in the most primitive sense now becomes my first priority. Strangely, to get into the course out this way, I'm told I needed my firearms and hunting licenses, which were surprisingly easy to get. Many, many people out this way are certainly proficient with living on the side of a mountain without people, stoves, manufactured tools or whatnot.
 
I agree. Having the ability to gather materials to suppliment ones provisions is always a good thing. Especially when the store bought stuff runs out.
 
I try to live by the maxim that anything you can own can be lost, destroyed, used up, or taken from you. We all look at and buy gadgets, and that is fine, as long as we are using them to supplement knowledge, not to make up for a lack of knowledge (or practiced skill). Experimental archeology, as I call it, goes a long way toward teaching you how do use nature's bounty to the fullest, replicating the activities of aboriginals who did the survival gig for a living. Most areas have excellent museums with artifacts from pottery, stone and bone tools, even some footwear and clothing. Talk to the staff if you have questions about how they were made. There is a good chance that they have made some items themselves. Need a cooking container? Remember what you saw, how it was constructed, and make one. Clay, crushed bone or shell, some charcoal and such, and with a bit of practice and patience, you've created your item. Same with flintknapping, bow and arrow making, spears, attlattls, fishooks, cordage etc.

Codger
 
Needle & Tread - Palm thorn and palm fiber, yucca thorn & yucca fiber

Water carrier - Coconuts ont he coast or bamboo everywhere else

Water Filter - Bamboo and charcoal drip filter

Tinder - Natural fibers from various sources

Food Gathering - "Arapuca" cage-type bird trap

Fire - Bow drill or bamboo fire saw

Compass - Southern Cross, sun

Signals - Fire/Smoke

Shelter - Grass in abundance

Shelter structure - Bamboo

Lashings - Vine or Imbira bark (hard to use w/o a knife)

Knife - Large quartz crystals in abundance, smash one to create sharp edges.

I've thought on this topic and come to some conclusions. In most areas in my region you can find some of the stuff some of the time but it is really hard to find all of the stuff all of the time. Primitive skills living is one thing when you have weeks and months or the entire range of the growing season to collect resources. Making these things work in concert over a 24-72 hour period is a stretch.

The contents of a well thought out PSK will give you TIME to get it all together right now rather than having to hike all over creation to find what you need.

Living here without a knife and firesteel is going to be difficult. Mac
 
Needle, Hawthorn or hedge apple thorns, must use an awl or similar with tight woven fabrics. Can use pitch to glue thread to base of thorn.
 
Doc I have been thinking for the last little while how to make needles from bone.
Natural fibres , pigments ,salves , you name it . It all sounds good to me . At this point in time I would prefer to think of them as options instead of substitutes .

Flint and steel would be a good back up for a lighter . I would not substitute flint and steel with my primary means of making fire .

I do not agree with people who bandy terms about when they are not really germain to the thread . I think knowing as much as we can will help us in ways most of us cannot even fathom .

If you happen to know a good way to make bone needles I am all ears .
 
pict said:
Needle & Tread - Palm thorn and palm fiber, yucca thorn & yucca fiber

Water carrier - Coconuts ont he coast or bamboo everywhere else

Water Filter - Bamboo and charcoal drip filter

Tinder - Natural fibers from various sources

Food Gathering - "Arapuca" cage-type bird trap

Fire - Bow drill or bamboo fire saw

Compass - Southern Cross, sun

Signals - Fire/Smoke

Shelter - Grass in abundance

Shelter structure - Bamboo

Lashings - Vine or Imbira bark (hard to use w/o a knife)

Knife - Large quartz crystals in abundance, smash one to create sharp edges.

I've thought on this topic and come to some conclusions. In most areas in my region you can find some of the stuff some of the time but it is really hard to find all of the stuff all of the time. Primitive skills living is one thing when you have weeks and months or the entire range of the growing season to collect resources. Making these things work in concert over a 24-72 hour period is a stretch.Good post, Mac, but I repeat.
By this, I don't mean to denigrate predesigned survival kits, it's just that the more substitutions you are aware of, the more prepared you are to deal with an emergency. Also, it helps you to become less isolated from good old Ma Nature.

The contents of a well thought out PSK will give you TIME to get it all together right now rather than having to hike all over creation to find what you need.

Living here without a knife and firesteel is going to be difficult. Mac
Click to expand...

Kevin the grey: Doc I have been thinking for the last little while how to make needles from bone.
Natural fibres , pigments ,salves , you name it . It all sounds good to me . At this point in time I would prefer to think of them as options instead of substitutes .
Click to expand...
It's like Bill said, "What's in a name..........." Call them options if you prefer.

45-70: Needle, Hawthorn or hedge apple thorns, must use an awl or similar with tight woven fabrics. Can use pitch to glue thread to base of thorn.
Click to expand...

You don't need to glue thread to the base of the thorn. If you're talking about Hawthorn, you split the base (wider part) of the thorn up towards the point, 1/2 to 1/3 of the way. To 'thread' the needle, you hold the split apart and insert the thread (or substitute) - a boon for us old guys with our less than 20-20 vision. As you push the thorn through the fabric, you squeeze the thorn together to trap the thread and permit it to be pushed through the fabric. Also, the wider base of the tapered thorn may assist by being forced together as it is pushed through.

Doc
 
Peel bark off logs to look for grubs.

Use chopsticks or make them in the field.

Use a keychain light or make a torch from a stick, twine, and straw.

Garbage bag for a raincoat or stitch leaves together.

Waterproof tarp for shelter or use bark, limbs, straw, leaves, sod, etc.

Use a leaf with a hole in it and put some water in the leaf to make a fire with the sun or make a bow drill firestarter.
 
This is great stuff! Here in the Northeast, if birch trees are around, make small water containers out of birch bark stitched together with cedar roots...even cook in it by adding hot stones to the liquid (I haven't done that, but read about it once ;) ) We can make lashings out of wild grape vine (I have done that) Cordage out of the fiber from milkweed (done that), needles from hawthorn, as mentioned. Bone needles can be made by smashing a leg bone of something between a hand held rock and an anvil rock, pick out the best shard and grind that into shape on another rock. Birds nest for fire tinder, and in early summer you can eat the eggs. In late summer you can eat the hatchlings :eek:
 
Doc,

I didn´t think you were out there denigratin´and such. Your last line of defense should always be an ever expanding "brain kit" and often it is neglected.

On the flip side there is a danger of overconfidence. The best teacher is experience. One thing I try to emphasize is that TIME is a scant resource in the first 72 hours of a wilderness ordeal. We tend to choose nice weather and favorable times of the year to practice wilderness skills. We also do it under controlled circumstances, or worse, in the back yard.

My only concern is that whatever primitive skills you plan to use or fall back on have to pass the "twisted ankle, fading light, and drizzle test". If they can´t be depended on in that situation then they fall under the wilderness living skill-set and not the wilderness survival skill-set.

This is a great thread, just keep it in perspective. Wilderness survival situations happen when something went really, really wrong. I personally can do very few of these primitive tasks one handed, or in the dark. A well thought out PSK puts you far ahead of the game, especially if you have a good skill-set in your brain and can make the most out of what happens to be around you when you find yourself stuck. If you lack light and mobility to scrounge the wilderness for resources you are in a world of hurt. Mac
 
pict said:
Doc,

I didn´t think you were out there denigratin´and such. Your last line of defense should always be an ever expanding "brain kit" and often it is neglected.

On the flip side there is a danger of overconfidence. The best teacher is experience. One thing I try to emphasize is that TIME is a scant resource in the first 72 hours of a wilderness ordeal. We tend to choose nice weather and favorable times of the year to practice wilderness skills. We also do it under controlled circumstances, or worse, in the back yard.

My only concern is that whatever primitive skills you plan to use or fall back on have to pass the "twisted ankle, fading light, and drizzle test". If they can´t be depended on in that situation then they fall under the wilderness living skill-set and not the wilderness survival skill-set.

This is a great thread, just keep it in perspective. Wilderness survival situations happen when something went really, really wrong. I personally can do very few of these primitive tasks one handed, or in the dark. A well thought out PSK puts you far ahead of the game, especially if you have a good skill-set in your brain and can make the most out of what happens to be around you when you find yourself stuck. If you lack light and mobility to scrounge the wilderness for resources you are in a world of hurt. Mac
Click to expand...

I reread my original post and see that there may be some ambiguity. I don't go anywhere without a survival kit of sorts, dependent on where I'm going. It's hard to justify taking a machete to a wedding.:eek: I have made friction fires for many years, both bow drill and hand drill, but I never go anywhere without a magnesium fire stick or fire steel. My point is not to examine substitutions for valuable survival kit items, but rather as additional resources. I hope this clears it up.

And as far as Mac's post above, I agree 100%.

Doc
 
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