Where they came from

[knifeswapper]

Let me start off by saying, 48 years seems really old. But to some that is wet behind the ears. I tell people I am an 80 year old grumpy old man in a 48 year old body. But the recent discussion in response to a video of a couple of "younger generation" knife nuts spurred some thoughts about our current environment pertaining to knives. There was a day when you carried a knife for a specific reason, or set of specific reasons. The knives were made specifically with a range of functions in mind. And, it seems, people were the same way. People did specific functions, day in and day out; to provide a living for their family.

For example, my father when he was young and starting a family had a busy day. He owned a gas station and worked it 7-5; came home and fed cattle; then spent the night roughnecking. I don't like the sound of any one of those jobs; much less two; and forget all three. When I got older we did hay bailing / hauling for hire and increased the land and cattle operation of our own. The days that seemed miserable at the time, I would give anything to experience again. Spending all day with my family with the branding iron furnace blaring while you vaccinated and worked one calf at a time through a head gate. All the younger years this was done with a Case stockman coping blade. Later there was banding and emasculators. Dad would have me keep the momma cows off him while he "cut" the baby calves in the open pasture with the same old stockman; but always by the almanac so they didn't bleed out. Even in my teen years, dad would never come in the house until supper. He owned a feed store and went straight to the pasture after he closed. Weekends he was fixing fence, locating new momma cows, or working on equipment. I've seen it all done and can even do a little of it if I have to; but by the Grace of God I don't have to work nearly as hard as my father.

That was just last generation! All the previous were at least as complicated and at least as enjoyable for families that were a unit. I have my grandads trapper in the vault that I spent decades watching him cut plug tobacco with the spey blade and everything else with the clip. Back then, even the sodbuster was an inexpensive knife, but not very sought after. What good was just one blade on a farm where a bull would become a steer just a few minutes before you needed to peel an apple. Those are two tastes, you don't really need combined.

Nowadays, the majority of knife nuts are looking for that one-bladed modern folder that will suite all their needs. And because of this market transition many of the old slipjoint makers have either gone to the wayside or are holding on by their fingertips. That is just the way of these things. But it often makes me wonder how embarrassed most of us would be if we had to work a day beside our grandfather? I couldn't hold a light to any one generation before me. And, if I am honest, a sturdy clip blade would probably take care of the vast majority of my chores on any given day. But, just as the picture of my grandad driving a Massey Harris Ferguson tractor with 15 migrant workers' children sitting all over it reminds us of a better day gone by; so does the knife of function from this era. (I now have that tractor and it purrs like a kitten)

Modern knives are great for modern times. You still can't make a functional rancher carry a framelock around here, but for most they are all the function they will need. And they may not even realize what that says about those of us thriving in 2017.

 

[ea42]

Mike that was a mighty fine Sunday morning read. Great story and great perspective, it might sound crazy but I'm pretty envious of your old man.

Eric

 

[Aias]

Great write-up Mike... my grandpa in Greece had a very similar life--heard flocks, had a general store, and had two different foreign occupations and wars to deal with. In his case, there was no stockman to be had; rather, he carried multiple fixed blades. My American granddad was a steelworker just outside Pittsburg, and besides that worked every other job he could find, especially during the depression. He had a few multibladed pocketknives... and much like you wrote, different blades were dedicated to different tasks.

So maybe the deeper message is purpose. What's ours as we pull our pocketknives? The so-called tactical marketing implies a purpose, but I'm not an LEO or soldier; I'm a dad, an outdoorsman, and at home a helluva cook...

My knife collection has come to reflect that, I think... with a few indulgences of course. The video in question didn't bother me, even if it did miss the mark when it comes to "traditionals".

Thanks again for sharing Mike

 

[kamagong]

A very nice post. Thank you.

But it often makes me wonder how embarrassed most of us would be if we had to work a day beside our grandfather?

I guess it all depends on what your grandfather did for a living. Both of my grandfathers had genteel vocations, one being a lawyer and the other a Presbyterian minister. I would have enjoyed working with them.

 

[traumkommode]

So maybe the deeper message is purpose. What's ours as we pull our pocketknives? The so-called tactical marketing implies a purpose, but I'm not an LEO or soldier; I'm a dad, an outdoorsman, and at home a helluva cook...

My knife collection has come to reflect that, I think... with a few indulgences of course. The video in question didn't bother me, even if it did miss the mark when it comes to "traditionals".

There was a day when you carried a knife for a specific reason, or set of specific reasons. The knives were made specifically with a range of functions in mind. And, it seems, people were the same way. People did specific functions, day in and day out; to provide a living for their family...

...What good was just one blade on a farm where a bull would become a steer just a few minutes before you needed to peel an apple. Those are two tastes, you don't really need combined.

Nowadays, the majority of knife nuts are looking for that one-bladed modern folder that will suite all their needs... But it often makes me wonder how embarrassed most of us would be if we had to work a day beside our grandfather? I couldn't hold a light to any one generation before me. And, if I am honest, a sturdy clip blade would probably take care of the vast majority of my chores on any given day. But, just as the picture of my grandad driving a Massey Harris Ferguson tractor with 15 migrant workers' children sitting all over it reminds us of a better day gone by; so does the knife of function from this era...

Modern knives are great for modern times. You still can't make a functional rancher carry a framelock around here, but for most they are all the function they will need. And they may not even realize what that says about those of us thriving in 2017.

1) I'd like to know the video in question, just because I haven't seen it, and if it's not appropriate to share the link here, maybe could one of you post a visitor message for me with the link?

2) On the purpose of the knife... borrowing a term from scientists, this is the "limiting factor" to my knife collection. I can't hang on to a knife that I don't use and that doesn't serve me a purpose, in part because of my income, but also largely because, frankly, it jeopardizes my emotional and spiritual well-beings to have stuff around that I don't need. I'm the guy whom it bothers to have excess in my presence. So my collection is only ever a handful of knives at any given time.

My first pocketknife was a Victorinox Classic. I got it when I was 7 or 8, and it made sense because I used most of the tools on it. As I got older, I needed a bigger SAK, and I also wanted a lockback knife, so I got a Gerber, which was fairly reminiscent of a medium sized Buck, but with some kind of rubberized handle. I had that Gerber for a long time, but never really needed it. The SAKs always got the use. Into my adolescence and young adulthood, I didn't find myself in need of a knife or a tool at my disposal, so I kinda forgot about them for a while. Occasionally, I'd think "It'd be cool to have a nice pocketknife," but I'd end up with some kind of cheaper modern folder that I didn't use very much.

What got be back interested in knives, believe it or not, was needing to cut my apples and not wanting to have to go to the kitchen every time. Perhaps that seems silly to some, but all of a sudden, I had a purpose for a knife - to save the roof of my mouth from the rawness I was experiencing biting into an apple. And off I went - it begain, as you've said, looking at a single blade modern folder. But many of them have blades too thick to really serve me in cutting an apple; not to mention a coldness and sterility that, to me, reflects a lack of personality. Thin blade stock and character are what drew me to traditionals, because the combination of those two seemed more readily available for a lot less money than it takes to get them together in a modern folder to suit my tastes.

I'm a social worker, a teacher, and a web designer by trade(s). Occasionally I need a knife to do some harder yard work, but there are still many stretches of weeks that go by where my pocket knives don't serve any other functions than: cutting my apples, opening a letter or box, and giving me something to admire and fiddle with, to captivate my interests.

I get ideas in my head like, "well, if I'm on vacation in the mountains, I might need a beefier blade, so I should add just one to my collection..." but that's a once-every-other-year kind of event, and so when I get one of those knives, I just don't keep it. Kind of like Aias, I suppose, I've reconciled the truth about my purpose in owning pocket knives, and have gotten much more disciplined about not indulging the "you need that" devil, save for one or two, because who knows, maybe one day they'll be correct

There's this impetus, though, to "be prepared for absolutely anything," and I've recognized that, in me at least, it comes from a place of unfounded fear about the future and lack of trust in life. It's taken a lot of work to reorient myself from "I must be prepared for XYZ" to "well, I'll deal with that if it ever shows up..." Just part of my learning to relax, I guess.

3) I realized, in typing this, that I do actually live a lifestyle analogous to your grandfathers, what with those 3 occupations. I typed "analogous" rather than "similar" because it's more of a modern-day equivalent rather than that I do similar things. I have recognized, too, that when I start to identify with sentiments like "the kids these days just don't understand the value of...", it usually pulls me back toward that unfounded fear and lack of trust in life. I was born in 1985, so Mike, I might seem wet behind the ears to you, but even I can recognize the vast difference in lifestyles between mine and, say, the current generation of adolescents. I don't know many people my age, let alone people younger, who think about pocket knives at all. They seem to be consumed with their iPhones.

What's important for me, though, is where all this leads me - back to recognizing and honoring what serves me, and letting go of the tendency to fret about whether others choose a lifestyle that serves them or not. When I compare my life to my father's, looking for the differences, if I'm not careful, it's easy to cast aspersions upon myself and my life if I'm using his values as a measure of my success. But, as good as my dad is at what he did, he can't do the things I can do. And when I measure my life against my values, I am incredibly successful. I don't know that my dad has very good taste in pocket knives, but then again, I don't think they're important to him in the same way they are to me, so inexpensive and sharp are probably the only boxes he needs checked.

I appreciate discussions like these. They have depth and character, analogous to fine traditional pocket cutlery

 

[Pomsbz]

It's an interesting discussion. Knives then were made for a particular purpose. Nowadays the knives far outstrip their needs in the modern world. Most urbanites are using modern knives which practically never reach a fraction of fulfilling their potential in a world where a simple SAK would more than answer day to day requirements and to be honest perhaps might not even be necessary. I spent my entire twenties without any knife on me and never even noticed the lack. The idea of needing a 3-4" fast deploying thick blade as carry in the office is the antithesis of purpose. Might be fun, might be cool, but it would be hard to justify as anything but that. Something those young men in the video would be loathe to admit.

 

[fishcakes]

Its funny you know thinking about this. Both my grandfathers died before i was born, both from cancer.

My moms dad worked construction and owned his own fishing boat that he also used in slow times to collect the logs that were sent downriver by loggers in the tacoma washington area. I have no idea what knife he carried.

My dads dad also worked construction and was a factory worker. And ive recently learned from my dad that he carried a knife very similar to the peanut.

My dad has had odd jobs throughout his life, store security, retail, restaurant jobs. Never worked construction a day in his life. He always carried a fieldmaster sak.

I guess im a little mix of them all. Ive worked restaurant jobs and even ran a cafeteria alone, built installed and repaird boat docks, and most recently i work construction installing and repairing fire sprinkler systems. I carry a sak and penut, but leave the sak home when not working. I would loved to have worked alongside either of my grandfathers, see what kind of men they were.

My father tells me how much i remind him of his dad and uncles growing up. My moms family tells me i remind them of my grandpa on her side. I think i could work alongside these men and keep up the pace, i can outwork anyone ive met thats my age, but that i believe is more a symptom of our times than my own accomplishment

 

[leghog]

One grandfather carried a 2 blade jack knife. He was and electrician born in 1899. The other grandfather carried a pen knife. He was a grocer with AP & Tea Co. He was born in 1898. My Dad carried either a 2 blade pen or a small stockman. He was a SeaBee then civil engineer with 25 years in the Navy and retiring as the city engineer in Memphis. He was born in 1924. My father in-law preferred a Trapper or a Buck 110 type knife. He was a jack of many trades born in 1934. They each had knives of no special purpose which fit their needs quite well. I carry a peanut and SAK. No special purpose for either, but they too fit my needs quite well.

 

[AShearer]

Great, I mean GREAT post Mike. There is so much here I have to chew on it a bit. Great topic for our changing times.

 

[knifeswapper]

What's important for me, though, is where all this leads me - back to recognizing and honoring what serves me, and letting go of the tendency to fret about whether others choose a lifestyle that serves them or not. When I compare my life to my father's, looking for the differences, if I'm not careful, it's easy to cast aspersions upon myself and my life if I'm using his values as a measure of my success. But, as good as my dad is at what he did, he can't do the things I can do. And when I measure my life against my values, I am incredibly successful. I don't know that my dad has very good taste in pocket knives, but then again, I don't think they're important to him in the same way they are to me, so inexpensive and sharp are probably the only boxes he needs checked.

Very well said. God blessed me tremendously in my career as well. And my father told me many times that he never would have thought "computers" could have provided a nice living. He was proud that we didn't have to work like he did. But there is no better feeling in the world than accomplishing a hard task, especially a taxing task. Of all (as limited as it is) the work I have ever done, that closest to the earth seems to satisfy the most. I would say making something from scratch; but a wise man once told me "to make something from scratch, first you have to create the universe". This may seem a bit apocalyptic, but every man should be able to grow a garden and raise a chicken - don't know that running computers or peddling knives will always be useful.

 

[knarfeng]

As you respond, remember that this is a knife forum. The posts need to be centered around knives.

 

[Nature Boy]

...
Comment withdrawn. Probably not the right place for it.

 

[traumkommode]

Very well said. God blessed me tremendously in my career as well. And my father told me many times that he never would have thought "computers" could have provided a nice living. He was proud that we didn't have to work like he did. But there is no better feeling in the world than accomplishing a hard task, especially a taxing task. Of all (as limited as it is) the work I have ever done, that closest to the earth seems to satisfy the most. I would say making something from scratch; but a wise man once told me "to make something from scratch, first you have to create the universe". This may seem a bit apocalyptic, but every man should be able to grow a garden and raise a chicken - don't know that running computers or peddling knives will always be useful.

If I were a drinking man, I'd drink to that. I was working with a guy cleaning up a house to be sold, and my task one day was to clean the ivy off the side and windows. I had a Sodbuster Jr. with me, and he said something to me to the effect of, "are you sure you want to use that? Is it going to break?" I chuckled and told him it'd be fine, and sure enough, not only was it hearty enough to conquer that ivy (which is tough stuff), the SBJ was still cutting after a couple hours - surely earned it's keep for the day.

As for running computers and peddling knives - well, if it weren't for that peddling, there'd be no cutting. And besides, you come up with pretty cool knives from great makers.

Just wondering... Have you ever ground a blade?

 

[knifeswapper]

Just wondering... Have you ever ground a blade?

Not from bar stock. Did from files, etc. I figured out pretty quick when putting new stag slabs on Case / Schrade trappers, that I had neither the patience nor the skill to re-assemble a knife to suite me (much less anyone else).

 

[Danke42]

Couple of grandfather's knives on my dad's side.



I got to spend a fair amount of time on the farm with my mom's dad. I'm sure I could have made a go of it but there were too many kids (and way too many grand kids) to split the land up so most of the family had to move off the farm and find their own path.

Any time I drive a tractor now I still lay down nice straight lines. And I still like working with my hands and fixing my own tools and machinery. A lesson I picked up from those early days.

 

[Emspop]

What a wonderful and thought provoking post. I remember well times spent watching both my grandfather and my father working our place and hoping one day to be able to work along side of them. That's where my love of the stockman came from, watching in awe and wonderment at all the jobs they accomplished with them. I still to this day carry one and find a use for it everyday. I may not use it for all of its designed pourposes and could probably get buy with a fancy super steel modern wonder, but like the OP I'm blessed to remember where I come from, and I like to think that those three blades pay a bit of a tribute to it.

 

[leghog]

Dad's dad's knife

 

[fishcakes]

Dad's dad's knife

That right there is a man who cared about his knife. Nice even patina with no pitting or rust, sharpened his blades when they needed it and no more. He may have dropped it a couple times, but who doesnt every once in awhile? Very cool that youve got such an awesome piece of your familys history

 

[videorecipes]

Let me start off by saying, 48 years seems really old. But to some that is wet behind the ears. I tell people I am an 80 year old grumpy old man in a 48 year old body. But the recent discussion in response to a video of a couple of "younger generation" knife nuts spurred some thoughts about our current environment pertaining to knives. There was a day when you carried a knife for a specific reason, or set of specific reasons. The knives were made specifically with a range of functions in mind. And, it seems, people were the same way. People did specific functions, day in and day out; to provide a living for their family.

For example, my father when he was young and starting a family had a busy day. He owned a gas station and worked it 7-5; came home and fed cattle; then spent the night roughnecking. I don't like the sound of any one of those jobs; much less two; and forget all three. When I got older we did hay bailing / hauling for hire and increased the land and cattle operation of our own. The days that seemed miserable at the time, I would give anything to experience again. Spending all day with my family with the branding iron furnace blaring while you vaccinated and worked one calf at a time through a head gate. All the younger years this was done with a Case stockman coping blade. Later there was banding and emasculators. Dad would have me keep the momma cows off him while he "cut" the baby calves in the open pasture with the same old stockman; but always by the almanac so they didn't bleed out. Even in my teen years, dad would never come in the house until supper. He owned a feed store and went straight to the pasture after he closed. Weekends he was fixing fence, locating new momma cows, or working on equipment. I've seen it all done and can even do a little of it if I have to; but by the Grace of God I don't have to work nearly as hard as my father.

That was just last generation! All the previous were at least as complicated and at least as enjoyable for families that were a unit. I have my grandads trapper in the vault that I spent decades watching him cut plug tobacco with the spey blade and everything else with the clip. Back then, even the sodbuster was an inexpensive knife, but not very sought after. What good was just one blade on a farm where a bull would become a steer just a few minutes before you needed to peel an apple. Those are two tastes, you don't really need combined.

Nowadays, the majority of knife nuts are looking for that one-bladed modern folder that will suite all their needs. And because of this market transition many of the old slipjoint makers have either gone to the wayside or are holding on by their fingertips. That is just the way of these things. But it often makes me wonder how embarrassed most of us would be if we had to work a day beside our grandfather? I couldn't hold a light to any one generation before me. And, if I am honest, a sturdy clip blade would probably take care of the vast majority of my chores on any given day. But, just as the picture of my grandad driving a Massey Harris Ferguson tractor with 15 migrant workers' children sitting all over it reminds us of a better day gone by; so does the knife of function from this era. (I now have that tractor and it purrs like a kitten)

Modern knives are great for modern times. You still can't make a functional rancher carry a framelock around here, but for most they are all the function they will need. And they may not even realize what that says about those of us thriving in 2017.

hey mike, do you mind if i share this with a few members of my silicon valley twenty-something congregation? i think they'd appreciate the perspective as much as i did.

 

[knifeswapper]

hey mike, do you mind if i share this with a few members of my silicon valley twenty-something congregation? i think they'd appreciate the perspective as much as i did.

No problems. I have a nephew graduating high school this year in San Jose. My sister settled there while consulting with Netscape and my brother-in-law has worked for eBay, Paypal, Apple, etc. So, there may be similar stories right in your group. Matter of fact maybe I need to send my grandad's Case XX red bone trapper to my nephew for graduation with a picture of him cuttin' a new plug.