Where to find genuine Japanese swords?

J

JarrodS

Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
318
This is something I've always been interested in having, purely for display/collectible purposes. I don't care if it is antique (I probably couldn't afford one anyway), but would prefer to have something that at least stands a chance of holding or increasing in value over the years. But I have no idea where to look, how to identify a Japanese blade from a China repro, what to expect to pay, etc. Advice appreciated, even if it's only a link to an article or online store/maker. Many thanks.

Edit: I just saw this in another thread - I will read it for starters.
http://jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html
 
Those are not genuine Japanese swords. Those are shinken, which means real sword in Japanese. So basically, any carbon steel katana with a live blade regardless of the country of origin.

If you want a genuine Japanese sword, or nihonto, you need to either find a shop that sells antique or gendaito nihontos that come with authentication certificates, or you need to find a Japanese swordsmith to commission a katana from. Keep in mind that many Japanese swordsmiths have 2 to 5 year waits for a finished blade.
 
cpio said:
Those are not genuine Japanese swords. Those are shinken, which means real sword in Japanese. So basically, any carbon steel katana with a live blade regardless of the country of origin.

If you want a genuine Japanese sword, or nihonto, you need to either find a shop that sells antique or gendaito nihontos that come with authentication certificates, or you need to find a Japanese swordsmith to commission a katana from. Keep in mind that many Japanese swordsmiths have 2 to 5 year waits for a finished blade.
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^This. It is extremely expensive to acquire a genuine Japanese sword made by a Japanese government recognized swordsmith. Manufacture time is long, waiting list is long, and some export laws apply (if I'm not mistaken).
 
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Oh. :(

This may sound stupid but I think I remember seeing an episode of Pawn Stars where a genuine sword, with a recognized maker's mark under the tsuka, came into the shop and was appraised at $2500. I could barely swallow that, but I could also be misremembering. I could not do double, or quadruple (what I've seen for antique blades) that amount and remotely justify the cost.

Edit: Nevermind I just googled it and while they only paid $1300 for the blade, it appraised at something like $15k after they put $3k into a restoration. But it was a 16th century blade...
 
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blades&wrenches said:
^This. It is extremely expensive to acquire a genuine Japanese sword made by a Japanese government recognized swordsmith. Manufacture time is long, waiting list is long, and some export laws apply (if I'm not mistaken).
Click to expand...

From what I understand, Japanese law mandates that a swordsmith may only produce two katanas per month. I believe they're permitted to produce three wakizashis or tantos per month, but I could be wrong about that part.

Due to these draconian regulations, a modern nihonto can cost upwards of $25000 and much higher, depending on the swordsmith and the characteristics of the particular sword you commission. That doesn't even include the fees charged by the togishi, the master who makes the fittings or the master who builds the saya.
 
JarrodS said:
This is something I've always been interested in having, purely for display/collectible purposes. I don't care if it is antique (I probably couldn't afford one anyway), but would prefer to have something that at least stands a chance of holding or increasing in value over the years. But I have no idea where to look, how to identify a Japanese blade from a China repro, what to expect to pay, etc. Advice appreciated, even if it's only a link to an article or online store/maker. Many thanks.

Edit: I just saw this in another thread - I will read it for starters.
http://jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html
Click to expand...

I note that folks are already mentioning some of the obstacles to purchasing a genuine Japanese sword, but those aside, I would suggest that perhaps if you can't tell the difference between a Chinese made chitana and a nihonto you shouldn't be in the market for a nihonto. You are just begging to get ripped off by the unscrupulous. If you really wish to own a nihonto spend some money on books, and then start saving. While you are saving, read the books and start taking every opportunity you can to study nihonto in person. When you finally have the money for a nihonto you will also know what one is... and what it is not.
 
I can also recommend this site from personal experience, a good guy to deal with - [Removed]

[Removed]
 
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Lee Bray said:
Bugei sell Chinese, modern made Shinken. Great for martial arts but not what most would call a 'genuine Japanese' sword, if that is what you're after.

This site, http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/ , is a great resource for learning. Basic care and maintenance guides, lists of reputable dealers, a members classifieds section and a vast wealth of information from many collectors in the field of Nihonto.

I can also recommend this site from personal experience, a good guy to deal with - [Removed]

[Removed]
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well, I just though the fella was looking for an alternative to the cost of a real one.
 
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Thanks everybody (esp Lee - your response was perfect). I will follow those links and read up. Good to know that it might be possible to do this on the budget I am imagining.

I thought all nihontos were differentially hardened and thus had a visible hamon. Is this not the case? A nice hamon is definitely something I would like.
 
By the way, Dr. Stein's (Rich S, above) site is the bee's knees. He is a major credit to the field.
 
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Quick search on the sites that are my "go-to" show a variety of prices, averaging between $4,000-$10,000 for swords in decent polish and fully mounted. A decent bare blade will probably run you about $2,000 to start, and will probably need polish. If you are on the East Coast there are a couple sword shows worth going to, including a nice one in Florida. It would be worthwhile to attend if you have the time before you make a purchase.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Lee, is it possible for you to email me the info you had up there earlier? I was expecting to have this thread to refer to but it appears that the TOS will not allow it.

MANY thanks for your help.

Rich, I've saved a link to your site, in case your post goes away, too. Same with SBranson. Many thanks to both of you as well!
 
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