Where to go and what to look for in table saws, jig saws and, other power tools?

S

Sid Post

Joined
Oct 14, 1998
Messages
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A couple of years ago, on another forum, I learned a great deal about chain saws and axes for serious wood work in a more rural setting then I currently find myself in (rural farmland versus the big city).

My interest has now turned towards the tools one would use to build things in the city when remodeling a home or building furniture, patio decks, gazebos and, similar structures. Specifically, I’m looking at things like table saws, compound miter saws, jig saws and, the like. Common tools like drills and circular saws are relatively easy to compare and actually find but, I have found that discerning differences in general; quality, performance and, value specifically; to be a challenge with most other tools.

To start my work shop off initially, I am leaning towards purchasing:
  • A traditional table saw so that I can rip plywood and similar materials in various widths
    A compound miter saw for cutting everything from trim moldings for window boxes to hide the Venetian blinds to angular cuts for patio deck planks and 4x4 timbers

Items I am currently undecided on are:
  • A high performance Jig Saw for cutting irregular shapes
    A sander of some sort (other then the common ¼ sheet pad sanders) to smooth wood surfaces for furniture
    A router to make my own moldings and soften furniture edges (should this be mounted/mountable in a table saw bench?)

In general, what should I look for in a pro-sumer grade tool? I want to buy the right tool the first time and would prefer to buy more tool then I need, then to buy not enough the first time and be forced to re-purchase the right tool the second time around.

To narrow things down a little, my current tools are pretty much all DeWalt (drill, reciprocating saw, circular saw, ¼ sheet pad sander) along with a few other stray tools from Black and Decker and Ryobi. I have been looking at Makita, Bosch, Hitachi, Milwaukee, Porter-Cable, Skil, and Delta products in general.

Specifically, the Makita LS1212 12" Dual Rail Slide Compound Saw seems to be the compound saw of choice based on what I have read on the ‘net. I am unsure if this is way overkill or a good long term investment. Looking at the local $300 saws from DeWalt and Delta, I was a little concerned with how they would work on fine moldings and most of them required you to reverse the material to make angular cuts the other direction. Repeatability of the settings was also questionable based on what store personnel had to say. I’m thinking $300 to $700 should buy a heck of a saw but, what do I know?

Table saws in general are still a large unknown. Looking at rip fences and router attachments in addition to the obvious aspects of the motor and saw blade setup, I am confused here. Descent saws seem to start at around $450 and go up from there. What should I be looking at?

Any references to good books or other forums and/or web sites would be most appreciated! And yes, I have been to Home Depot but, I am finding the tool selection and knowledge lacking (The "no Big Box store" rule seems to restrict what they stock and, the knowledge of the available help varies a lot and, they don't have much time to spend with a single customer).

Thanks for your help!
Sid
 
I don't know about the quality, but they also sell knives so they must be okay. They built A GIANT showroom near my home and have some neat stuff. They are
http://www.grizzly.com

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Brian
 
Delta and Dewalt are two good brands to look into, they have great quality and reasonable prices. Dewalt is definitely the best when it comes to cordless tools. Stay away from Craftsman, its no good anymore and they don't back up their service garauntees very well. Black and Decker makes tools that are cheap, but aren't built solidly enough for serious use.The quality seems to be decent though.
Porter Cable,Bosch, and Milwaukee all make good tools, but their pretty expensive.

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I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer... but I've got the sharpest knife in the room.
 
Hi Sid

You've posted a topic I know something about; this is what I do for a living.

I'd stay away from Ryobi. Black and Decker owns DeWalt, which are great tools. Black and Decker's "Professional" grade tools are very good, but their other lines are aimed at the occasional home user. ALL the other brands you mention are very good, with one maker perhaps having a better specific tool than the others, and so on. For instance:

Jig Saw: Bosch 1587 is one of the best $155

Sander: DeWalt DW421 5" random orbital $75
uses 5" disks with hole for dust pick-up

Router: Porter-Cable 690P $150
a good, all-around router

Router: Bosch 1613EVS plunge router $195
if you plan on plunge cuts, try this
one

Compound
miter: the one you are looking at is very good. BIG blade. I use an 8" blade,
the Hitachi C8FB2 $450. Hitachi also makes a 10" model. The C8FB2 has been an industry standard for years.

Table Saw: DeWalt DW744S 10" portable saw.
I use this, makes it easier to move from job to job. Bosch has just come out with a similar saw.
I've heard good things about it.
Delta 36-444 saw for a more sta-
tionary saw. Harder to move from
job to job. $600

If you have help, you don't need to worry too much about portability. A 12" compound miter saw is usually a lot of overkill, but you may have need for it. I get by with my 8".
Most blades that come with saws can be improved upon, no matter the manufacturer. Whatever blade you use, keep it sharp. Forrest makes the best blades, but you pay for them. Systimatic and Freud make good blades at a more reasonable cost. If you have a helper, this doesn't apply, but you may need a set of outfeed rollers. You can use these to support a long board being cut on the table saw, or a long board being cut on the miter saw. You'll want to mount the miter saw at a comfortable height. Buy a $200 stand or just set it on boards running across cheap saw horses. Check out www.toolcrib.amazon.com for pretty good prices. Protect your eyes and watch where you stick your hands. Have fun.

 
Sid, you might want to at least look at the Shopsmith machine for a "one tool does it all"

It is very precise, takes up little space (for all the tools it replaces), has a very powerful motor, and is endless fun.

It does not move well from one location to another but I've had one for 15 years and there's very little it won't do. The neat thing about them is that it replaces many small electrical motors which get used very little, with one large motor that has enough power for any task.
 
Don't go to grizzly. They have bad QC on their stuff and sometimes, very long backorders. I waited 2 months for my knifemaking grinder from them. It works pretty good now, but needed to be modified first, ie contact wheel wasn't true, platen sucks, etc.
 
Sniper308
I agree with you on your observations about the Shopsmith. My father had one that I enjoyed using as a turning lathe and as a horizontal boring machine (to locate dowel holes). My question pertains to something Sid specifically mentioned, that being the cutting of plywood. The Shopsmith table is relatively small; do you think ripping 4'x 8'
sheets of plywood would be easy, even with help? I'm thinking of trying to keep the edge of the plywood tight against the rip fence. You'd need an assistant or roller supports? It sounds like you know your way around the wood shop. And the shooting range.
 
Gotta disagree with Matt on the Craftsman stuff.
Most of Craftsman's power tools are made by Black & Decker, and DeWalt. I have the Craftsman 18 volt Professional drill & trim saw, and they work flawlessly. I also have a Craftsman router, and a Craftsman table saw that I have never had a problem one with. My Craftsman jig saw is probably close to 50 years old, and it still works great.
I also own some Skil & Ryobi sanders, a Skil worm drive saw, and some Makita stuff. I've had good luck with them all.

Compare the products, and the price. I also suggest a copy of Consumer Reports. I usually base my purchase decisions on what CR says about the product.

Good Luck.




[This message has been edited by CODE 3 (edited 12-31-2000).]
 
http://www.woodworkerswarehouse.com/

I use the local stores here.
smile.gif


Bosch 12 Volt w/ extended batteries are my favorite cordless. Clutch locks down so you can use the chuck one handed, or twist the whole drill like a screw driver for extra torque.
smile.gif
Good weight & power for size. The larger voltage cordless are too big and bulky IMHO.

Senco & Hitachi make great air nailers if you are in a market for one later on. Porter Cable makes a decent brad nailer kit for low $$.
smile.gif


Dewalt 3 HP plunge router kicks butt and is buttery smooth (made by Black & Decker/ELU).

Black & Decker makes a 12V quick charger unit that fits all most ALL rechargables - if you use cordless you want this!
biggrin.gif
Rumor has it they are suppose to come out with a higher voltage base unit some time soon (if not already....LOL). For example I can do Makita 9.6V battiers in under 12 minutes, and extra run 12V batteries in under 18 minutes verses the std chargers that do it in around an hour.

Just my three cents. So many tools, only so much money.
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Ray 'md2020'

ATKI member #A001042
 
Ivy Mike:

Actually cutting large sheets of plywood (4 x 8) is one of the areas that a Shopsmith excells in. The table spreads apart so it supports the entire sheet, however rollers are very helpfull!

In my opinion one of the most useful tools of all that Sid is looking for is probably a power compound miter box saw. I'd get a large one in order to cut 6 x 6's completely through (by flipping it over once), and would probably buy one with the radial arm feature in order to cut boards wider than 6 inches or so. There is little that you'll need to cut that you can't do with one of these and they are pretty portable in order to take it to where you're working. (You can take it outside so you don't have your wife complaining about sawdust everywhere in the house.
 
My Dad and I both used to really like craftsmen tools. But quality and service are going south, or actaully over seas to china ( thats where my Dads new craftsmen table saw was made) Their hand tols are good and still hold their waranty. The power tools waranty is that they will fix it ( to the best of thier ability) but not replace it. We took a craftsmen leaf blower in because it wasn't running right and we couldn't get the throttle to adjust. They adjusted it and got it ruinning worser than we did, gave it back and said it was the best they could do.
Then to the table saw, the rip fence blows. Really really blows. It slides around all over the place. There's no hope of getting an accurate rip in a 4x10 sheet of plywood and this is supposed to be a contractor grade saw. Then it has this stupid gaud over the blade that prevents you from doing anything that a tbale saw is good for like slotting, dados, etc. It doesn't stay aligned properly either, so peices get bouind up behind the blade on rips occasionally.
Now drill presses. I have only seen one drill press that was made by craftsmen that had a tight spindle. The rest just wobble like crazy. The old drill presses that my dad and my grandpa have, both have sleeve bearings in the arbor, which means that the wobble gets worse as they wear. I don't nknow if the newer models have good bearings or not.
Another good brand you should lok into is JET. I forgot to mention them before but they make nice stuff and get into the industrial type machines also.
Makita makes good stuff. Their cordless drills are nice, my Dad has a couple of them. They aren't as good as my Dewalt though, it has a lot more torque for the same voltage. Both makita and dewalt drills are tough though. They can handle lots of use wihtout getting tore up.
If you get a cordless drill or any drill wihta keyless chuck, get bits that have hex drives. The jaws wear down some and can't grip round bits tight enough for some jobs.

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I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer... but I've got the sharpest knife in the room.
 
Matt

Check your De Walt stuff...I'd bet it's made in China, too. Most hand held power tools (late models) are. My B&D Wizard tool is made in China, as well as most of the Jet line.

My opinion is that you need to rely on what Consumer Reports, and other reputable sources have to say, then make your decision.

I've had excellent results with my equipment, and would buy the same brands again.
 
I don't care if my tools are made on the moon. Or subcontracted to the keebler elves. It doesn't matter what factory they were made in all that matters is that the craftsman tools I have aren't as good as the other brands. I don't know if the black and yellow paint makes it perform better or what the hell the deal is. A $600 contractors grade table saw should be able to rip a sheet of plywood without a C clamp holding the damn rip fence in place.
My Dewalt drill may be made in china so are the makita drills I was comparing it to. That doesn't change the fact that it has more torque for the same voltage.
Your craftsman tools may be great but mine aren't. That at least says something about their quality control.

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I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer... but I've got the sharpest knife in the room.
 
HI!
here's something I know about,Ive been in construction since high school and contracting for 5 years now. if you're gonna go sliding miter,the Hitachi 10" BELT DRIVE is the best deal on the market,you shouldn't have to pay more than $500 for it(I got mine at home depot) will cut off a 4x12 one pass.you've gotta get a good stand for it,most important part. delta kickstand is what I use,very portable with wheels! good blades are cheaper for 10" (try a matsu****a) hand held porter cable tools are great buys too, I use bosch routers,they rock! milwaukee for drills. as for a table saw,if you dont plan to move it look into rigid,jet.deltas can be had cheap and they're decent. just make sure it feels solid and is belt driven and you should be okay.for a portable I'd go dewalt or if you're not sure which way to go,get a contractor type saw(what I use)from the same makers.(about $400)I recommend a band saw early on, hope this helps
 
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