Which 2 would you carry???

D

dvcavall

Joined
Sep 6, 2001
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I posted a similar thread on the BUSSE forum, but this forum seems to have more activity, so I'm asking here as well.

On the BUSSE forum, someone asked what everyones "First and Favorite" BUSSES knives were? No one answered with the Battle Mistress as either one?? Why??

I had convinced myself that the ultimate carry combo from BUSSE would be a BM for chopping, and a Badger Attack for finer work. Along with a Leatherman , I thought I would have things covered pretty well?

Now, I'm not certain. Most seem to prefer the Steel Heart to the BM? I would also pick the SH, IF I WERE ONLY TO CARRY ONE BUSSE KNIFE. Clearly the SH is big enough for many "chopping" jobs, but workable for finer work, but like many knives in that size range, I still feel it is not the very best at either, and since I have the option of carrying two, why not get two knives that excel at each end of the use spectrum?

I still get the feeling that even if my logic isn't flawed, that many of you would still opt to carry the SH instead of the BM, even if you were carrying two knives? What I'd like to know is why? Is the BM just too darn heavy? Perhaps it isn't true that the BM is a better chopper than the SH?? What is the story here, and why isn't the BM prefered??? I'd like to know before I lay down some cash for the wrong one!
 
Great thread Dave,
If I were to carry just one knife, the Steel Heart would be it. It can do everything well. My personal preference is two knives, a BM-E and my 5\16 BA. This way I have two tools that will excel in any job I need them for.
Andrew
 
First of all you cannot go wrong with either.

Some people like big knives and some like 'em small.

Bill
 
What, I did not respond before :o :confused:

My favorite Busse is the one I got first, my Battle Mistress. I like its balance and its chopping ability. It came very sharp, which makes it easy to maintain in that state. If I had to rely on one fixed blade, it would be the one, because of its versatility. If it matters, it is the straight handled model, not an E. In my opinion it is the quintessential Busse Knife.

If I was to pair it with another Busse, for greater ease of use, it would be my Lean Mean Street. In a knife this size 1/4" is just too thick for a good slicer in harder/firmer materials, say a hard cheese. I think that 3/16" is generally more appropriate in this size knife, but of course it depends on individual preference and intended use. Of course, I admit to using my BNO to slice some Manchego cheese, after all the black crinkle coating matches the black wax on the outside of the cheese! ;) If I did not have my LMS, I would pair it with my Simonich Kanji. Of course, by preference, I would also have with me my Leatherman tool or the SAK Rucksak.

Reasons why I and others may not have responded before and chosen a Battle Mistress. Our computers locked up......OK so that was a small stab at humor. ;) Actually, I have not carried it on any lengthy expeditions, so do not really feel qualified to strongly recommend it. I did take my Basic 9 on a summer trip and used it a reasonable amount...enough to scar the finish splitting some wood. It was great. If you are carrying a lot of gear or are in the military, one might find that the BBM is a tad long for ease of carry, hence all the Steel Heart fans. I am 5' 10", and perhaps have shrunk with age ;), and find the BBM about as long as I would want to carry on my thigh. For anyone 6' or above, I would go with the BBM!!! The other reason I would go with the BBM is that my daughter appropriated my BSH (Steel Heart). :D At the moment she is less than 5'10". Length laws or similar might also play a part.

If one is not in an area where you are generally going to get to use it, perhaps it is overkill to carry it. On the other hand, I saw a post from someone who suggests somewhat differently, although not the opposite. That post suggested that it is the time when you have little equipment, etc., are just out for the day, and get caught by surprise, that you need it. I do not recall what knife it was, but I believe it was a largish Busse. They entered an area that made it difficult to continue and the safest course was to build a shelter and stay the night. If I paraphrased the post wrong, the point remains. The big knife came in handy. I know I would feel better with my BBM close at hand.

Briefly, some weights in ounces, of just the knife, that I have available: LMS–5.8, BBA–11, BNOe–17.7 (1 lb. 1.7 oz), BBM--21.5 (1 lb. 5.5 oz). Sorry I don’t have a weight on my Steel Heart, but the Busse site lists the e model at 19 ounces. I do not see a difference of 2.5 ounces as a major deciding factor, when both knives, the BSH and BBM, are both over a pound. By the way, some bonus weights, the Rucksack is about 3.7 oz and the Wave is about 7.8 oz. The Busse folder is ___?__ ounces. :D
 
I’m feeling inclined to ramble on about this subject, so here goes--

I favor the SH for the same reason you state--it will do most utility work a smaller knife will do, and is still a legitimate chopper. I also agree that it does neither as well as a knife designed specifically for either task. But I keep my SH handy in the door pocket of my pickup, and it seems to quickly and efficiently handle any task too big for a 3" blade folder, including chopping. I also carry an 18” machete and an axe in the tool box of my truck, for clearing brush.

If I were choosing just two knives, with one specifically for chopping, my problem with the BM is its 10” blade length. It can't compete with the reach of a machete for clearing brush, and for working heavy stuff of more than 3" diameter, I’d rather use a hatchet or
camp saw.

I do think that if you had to rely on just one blade for clearing underbrush AND working on heavy timber, a BM would be a better choice than any one of those—machete, hatchet, or saw—and that’s quite an accomplishment. So, for anyone gearing up to go into an expanse of timbered wilderness with minimal gear for extended survival, a BM might be the very best choice. In fact, I think I recall Jerry answering an interviewer in one of the magazines a few years back, who asked him about the BM's target user, and he replied with something like, "The Battle Mistress is meant for someone who is going into the bush and isn't coming back." I thought that reply was very much in keeping with both the design of the BM and with Jerry's approach to knife making in general.

For most, I think the problem with the BM as a first-choice user may be that we don’t fall into the category of "going into the bush and not coming back.” The “Rambo” scenario is just not very likely. We don’t have to be ready for anything with just one or two knives carried on our person. For whatever tasks we might perform on a given excursion, we have a variety of appropriate tools to choose from, to address those tasks.

On the other hand, you really should have a Battle Mistress just in case. After all, if Armageddon comes in the middle of the night, it’s nice to know there’s one blade you can grab on your way out of your burning abode to get you through hell and back.

-w
 
My Steel Heart and either my Lean or Desert Warfare Mean Street.

Of course I'd have my straight-handled Badger hidden....
 
Well, since I can choose, besides everyone knows 2 knives are much better than one and 3 even better ;)

I'd take long swedge clip point bolo BM variant, for all it is :D
For rough and tough things I don't think it gets any better :)
<A HREF ="http://www.zvis.com/knives/knimgtmpl.shtml?http://www.zvis.com/images/knives/fix/bck/bussebmbv2.jpg"><IMG SRC="http://www.zvis.com/images/knives/fix/bck/bussebmbv2i.jpg"></A>
And since one would need a smaller, versatile blade for utility tasks the new SJ CG would a natural choice.
<A HREF ="http://www.zvis.com/knives/knimgtmpl.shtml?http://www.zvis.com/images/knives/fix/bck/bussesjle1.jpg"><IMG SRC="http://www.zvis.com/images/knives/fix/bck/bussesjle1i.jpg"></A>
Pardon for non CG pic, it hasn't arrived yet so I have to survive with SJ LE only :D
 
I have used several very nice ~7" blades and they indeed often get really strong praise by experienced users (both in terms of experience with various tasks as well as various cutlery). Two that readily jump to mind are the Steel Heart and Will York and the Project from Reeves and Greenjacket, whose perspective mirrors Will's quite strongly. I can't disagree with anything that they have said (which is fairly rare indeed), but will note that perspective on "which knife" is influenced rather strongly by enviroment and personal abilities / lifestyle.

In contrast for example I greatly prefer a 10"+ class main working blade. The wood around here is *much* softer than what Will uses, and I don't have any problem on 4" wood and even 6" is not a problem unless is is full of knots. And that size of wood is far from necessary for any kind of shelter building, making traps or even setting a fire. A well filled out 4" Fir, will be close to 30 feet high, and the main body of the tree will sustain a fire by itself for quite some time, not to mention the stack of branches for construction materials for walls, bedding or signal flares as they will ignite and burn quite rapidly.

While an axe is the obvious choice for larger wood, handling that class of wood is not something I would want to be doing in any kind of extreme situation as it is inherently dangerous and you want to be of sound mind and clear of fatigue. Even if you can fell it without problems (note large trees often require the removal of surrounding smaller ones to get a clear fall path), you now face the task of moving it which will require bucking it as lifting it will be quite difficult. Note mass will go up as the square of the size. An 8" log is four times as heavy as a 4" one, 12" is nine times as heavy and is difficult to carry even when in short lengths.

My main problems with 7" blades are lack of reach, as Will noted. The chopping abilites of a good 7" blade are easily enough for local wood with the rare exception (knotty Black Spruce), but without the length you have to work too close to brush that you will not want to get close to, and have to do far more bending and leaning than is comfortable. Is 10" the ideal length for this, not hardly, again as Will noted a longer blade is even better. I am getting a custom in 5160 now that is going to be 12-14".

That is about the length that I find that is at about the limits that I can use the blade as a knife as the extra length compounds the problems that Will described. Currently now I am using a bolo/khukuri blade in this class owned by Andrew Lynch. It is the one second from the top in the following picture :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/al_bolo_bm_pab_ak_side.jpg

I have used it extensively clearing both dead woody vegetation (Pine, Fir, Birch, Spruce, little Oak), as well as intermediate brush like Alder which is on the limit of being called wood it is that soft, and as well much lighter weedy vegetation. It has enough length so that I am not left wanting for most tasks, but yet not uncomfortable working with it for less than full length swings, this gets very difficult as you push past 12".

The balance is also heavy enough to allow it to chop well (equal to the SHBM), and yet not generate as high level of fatigue on lighter work, and has the optimal primary bevel geometry (dual convex tapers). In fact, I would give this blade pretty much the strongest praise I can which is that it would be my main carry, replacing the SHBM except for a few minor problems (handle issues as well as the blade curvature is a little off for my personal preferences). Now there is no arguing that the SHBM has a much higher edge retention in both light and heavy work, is a lot stronger, much more durable edge geometry and all around a much tougher blade, however for just woodwork I would pick Andrews blade simply because of the extra length (balance is also key). I was so impressed that it actually made me get a similar custom piece done (similar being a very loose term).

Again I agree with Will's description of the BM and how it is a "one knife" blade, and if I could just have one knife that is pretty much the design I would want and it is why I carry it as often as I do. However if I could have two blades my main blade would be a bit longer with a slightly different geometry and my secondary blade a lot smaller, like a MS or BA. Anyway, my point is simple. There are positives and negatives to blade lengths and you really need to work with a few to get an idea of what suits you best, and someones elses opinion of such has as much relevance to your decision as the next surgery that Cher decides to have performed.

-Cliff
 
Are such "variants" available from BUSSE or ????, or are they discontinued models? I agree that a Bolo profile seems to be near ideal for chopping. In fact, Cliff Stamp seems to have documented how a $30.00 Khukuri can compete pretty well with a $300.00 BUSSE in his testing? I was glad to read however, that it has been the SHBM that Cliff has been carrying.
 
I managed to slip "my" Steel Heart out of my daughter's desk drawer and took it to be weighed. It actually weighs more than my Battle Mistress. The Steel Heart weighs 1 lb. 5.9 oz. and as I mentioned above my BBM weighs 1 lb. 5.5 oz. The reason, my particular BSH is made with 5/16" stock!!! The BBM is closer to 1/4" stock.

The sheath is different and longer for the BBM so it weighs more.

Perhaps these factors are part of my preference for the Battle Mistress. When I receive my 3/16" Zero Tolerance set, my preferences may change. :D

Sometime I would like to try a Mr. Mojo and a Satin Jack, but I imagine, that such an opportunity is far in the future.
 
Donald--Sounds like your SH is the older straight version. Can you clarify which, and which BM model you're comparing it to?

Thanks--Will
 
Will,

All my models are straight handled Infi Busses, except the Natural Outlaw. This is indicated by the "e" which follows it in the list I had set forth above with some weights. It is also the only one which did not come with a Kydex sheath. It is however, in a Kydex sheath now, that was made for me by Joe Chen. He made an excellent sheath, and it has extra clip to hold a ferrocerium rod.

I had pictures of these on photopoint but I imagine those are no longer acessible. I am open to suggestions as the best places to currently post these pictures. BellSouth provides space, but I have not taken the time to do anything with it.

My straight handled Infi Steel Busse Battle Mistress has a great feel in my hand!!!! :D I believe Greg Davenport also recently expressed his liking for the Battle Mistress, although before that he had commented on the Steel Heart. The latter post was with respect to using the BBM to give/get a haircut!

Thanks for your interest.

Donald.
 
I like both the BM and SH and each serves a purpose depending on the season and the trip I am going on... Hmmmmm... come to think of it... I need another hair cut.
 
As soon as I get my knives back from Jerry I'll post up my idea of the ultimate carry combo.
 
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