which chef knife (millionth time? ;))

H

harrydg

Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
1
hey all,

i'm new on this forum, so... be gentle ;) here goes:
i want to buy a new chef's knife. i now have a 20cm crap thing, which i want to replace, i'm just 28 years old, cooking is just a hobby. i thought of buying a spyderco sharpmaker 204 set for sharpening stuff (which i think is good)
but... what chef knife...
there's
(my current favourite): misono ux10 210
but there's also: hattori, blazen, masamoto, tojiro, fujiware, ... they all have different price ranges, different steel, ... so which one to pick? i see that the misono has only a hrc of 59-60, others go to 62-63... i know, harder means they stay sharper, but hare harder to sharpen. a tojiro is a shitload cheaper and harder, but is it 1/3'd as good as the misono?
plus: length... i thought i'd buy a 210, but it seems everyone is in favour of a 240 or 270 even... price of the misono 210 at jck is $160, the 240 is $210.. that's a big difference!!!

so... as you've probably heard a lot: HELP? ;)

grtzzz
 
With 16 years experience under the chef apron, the finest chef knife for me, is the Wilkin's Ryback RM. THE FINEST!
Good luck.
 
J.A. Henckels 'Twin' set it an amazing set. My buddy has the 11 piece set and I was fortunate enough to put them to use a week ago. Amazing feeling and balance, but very expensive.

Kershaw also makes great kitchen knives.

Test out a few knives at a retailer, see how the feel and how YOU like them. If you know of a brand you are loyal to then do the same with those knives. I find with mostly all kitchen knife sets, brands have ranges or 'series'. From budget or affordable, up to professional series and what not.

EDIT:
Here is the Henckels Twin 1731 chef's knife. Beautiful!
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When I worked in a kitchen I used my own personal Murray Carter, easily the sharpest THING I've ever held. Problem was you could look at it wrong and it would rust.

I love Global knives but if you use a choked up grip like most chefs you will probably curse the thin spine after a lot of prep work. I upgraded to a heavyweight Global with the thicker spine and was happy.

Also like the Kasumi chef knife and MAC, I go back and forth in my collection.

Probably the best value out there is the victorinox forschner chef knife. It's cheap, not very sexy, but wow does it perform! Probably at 99% of any other of my knives for at about a quarter of the price. I like them so much I've given them as gifts to my friends who have started to learn how to cook.
 
Tojiro is high quality at a low price. If you're staying in the 210mm range, there are nearly unlimited options. If Misono is rocking your boat, go with Misono - that UX-10 is one looker.

The chef knives with harder steel are often thinner, so the higher hardness isn't a problem in that regard - usually, they're just a little more fragile.
 
I'm in the same boat (as well about the same age;)) as yourself regarding a chef's knife for my kitchen. The wife and I are slowly starting to weed out our old crappy knives collected and handed down to us while we were in college. After 3 years of marriage, we think it is time to get the tools that will better help us with our passion of cooking:)

We have no formal training, and the only cutlery we have held is what is available at department stores and kitchen stores. Of those, the most comfortable I have held are the Shun knives. Very ergonomic and very, very sharp. Also, they are gorgeous. You'd almost hate to hide them in a drawer with their pattern welded look. The downside is that they are a bit pricey. You certainly get what you pay for, but after hacking away with a 4 dollar knife for years you second guess yourself when potentially plunking down $200:o

My wife bought me a Shun paring knife for Christmas this year to try out. Absolute best knife in the kitchen and the sharpest knife I have ever gotten right out of the box.
 
My suggestion is Tojiro and MAC. Probably my favorite thing in my knife block is a very fine ceramic sharpening steel. I haven't touched my smooth steel or any other sharpening steel since I've had the ceramic.
 
I will second this:

Probably the best value out there is the victorinox forschner chef knife. It's cheap, not very sexy, but wow does it perform! Probably at 99% of any other of my knives for at about a quarter of the price.

Per db's comment "Probably my favorite thing in my knife block is a very fine ceramic sharpening steel. I haven't touched my smooth steel or any other sharpening steel since I've had the ceramic." No offense meant, but per the savants on this site and my local cutlery supply, if it is ceramic it is not a steel. It does not straighten the edge, which is what a steel is meant to do. The ceramic actually removes a little bit of metal, thus it sharpens, not steels. Some purests even say the grooved steels are not steels because they also remove part of the edge.
 
brownshoe said:
Per db's comment "Probably my favorite thing in my knife block is a very fine ceramic sharpening steel. I haven't touched my smooth steel or any other sharpening steel since I've had the ceramic." No offense meant, but per the savants on this site and my local cutlery supply, if it is ceramic it is not a steel. It does not straighten the edge, which is what a steel is meant to do. The ceramic actually removes a little bit of metal, thus it sharpens, not steels. Some purests even say the grooved steels are not steels because they also remove part of the edge.
Click to expand...
Yes I do know that and don't really care what you call them. I do like to call them sharpening steels though rather than sharpening sticks or whatever. The point is that useing the very fine ceramic steel shaped thing a ma jig is my favorite and most useful tool in my knife block. Tooning the edge with the ceramic for me gives me a better and longer lasting life to the edge. It is so much better than a smooth steel or ggrooved steel I don't even touch them anymore. Btw to the true purests even a smooth steel removes a atom or two when steeling so nananana. :)
:p
:p
 
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I think you guys have talked me into the Victorianox Fibrox Forschner. My question is, should I get the 8" or 10"?

Also, what do you guys think of the 7" Santoku?
 
Actually, the Kershaw Shun Chef's knives look appealing, but how does the blade feel in the hand? The round handle looks like it would be uncomfortable.
 
You should hold the knife before you buy it.
8" is fine for home use and you want a point, like a traditional chef knife.
 
I think a chef knife with an ~ (58-60) HRC rating offers a good compromise of hardness / softness. Hard enough to take and retain a sharp edge that is more than sufficient for above average home use, yet soft enough to be re-sharpened and avoid chipping from light chopping, incidental hard contact.

Going to a higher HRC will gain sharpness, longer edge retention at the cost of being more difficult to re-sharpen and more susceptible to chipping. My ceramic knife chipped when it kissed the cutting board and eventually shattered like glass. The higher the HRC, the less able for even the most moderate of chopping tasks. Plan on getting a lower HRC German chef or Asian cleaver (personal favorite) for nasty stuff -- like "rock chopping", cutting around and chopping through tougher things - poultry, fish bones, thick-skinned vegetables (squash, guards, melons), splitting lobsters, etc.

Longer lengths are better for large items / quantities, but are more difficult to control. I rarely, if ever use my longer ones. I don’t want to be swinging more metal than necessary. I greatly prefer either a 24cm (Japanese) or 8in (European). The length is perfect and the balance tends to be more neutral than other sizes.

Gyutos tend to light, a 24cm despite being longer, feels about the same as an 8" European chef knife. They have a flatter or less pregnant belly blade profile geared towards push cuts and slicing against a cutting board. As opposed to the more rounded belly and curved tip of a European chef / cook knife -- geared towards rock chopping and carving against a bone. Handles and ergonomics are a personally thing. You want something with sufficient knuckle clearance and feels right to you in a hammer and pinch grip. Personally, I don’t care for metal handle as I’ve yet to find one that felt secure with wet hands.

The Misono UX-10 is great knife. You’re paying a bit for its’ popularity, high level fit & finish, that freakin awesome looking dragon and whatever it is that makes it cut like it does. Some find the blade whippy.

The Tojiro (from what I’ve read) has the hardest stainless blade for the buck, and is somewhat of a diamond in the rough. The handle, fit & finish, blade geometry, cutting edge varies from below average to unacceptable.

The Fibrox Victorinox is highly recommended by America Test Kitchen. It’s butt ugly, but has surprisingly good steel that can take a very keen edge. It can’t hold it very long, but bounces back with just a couple of swipes on a hone.

Shun -- at first glance are simply gorgeous and seems to have all the bells and whistles of a Japanese knife: wa –handle, VG-10 (great balance of hardness, sharpen-ability and stain resistance), Damascus-faux, etc. But the blade profiles are atypical of gyuto. The pregnant belly of the Classic series makes it some sort German/Japanese cross breed. I don’t care for the Alton Angle series and detest the Ken Onion series.

I don’t find the Santoku nearly as effective as it is claimed to be. It’s too wide to slice, too thin to chop and too small to be anything, but a mini veggie cleaver for my wife. The advantage it has with veggies, over a Chef knife is lost in versatility and easily surpassed by a Chinese vegetable cleaver. My license plate with a handle does everything a Santuku does – better.
 
The Wilin's Ryback chef knives use Becut steel. Industrial cooking blades, like a Buffalo Chopper, for example, are made with this steel. I think Becut steel is second to INFI.
 
Is Becut the tradename Bestar uses for A8-modified? My memory of their tool steels is slipping with time. :(
 
Thom---I think? Don't quote me. That info is on Kevin Wilkin's web-Page.
Tnx.
 
Akifusa or Aritsugu for stainless. Both are bargains for their performance.
Watanabe for high-carbon.
Phil Wilson makes also very good chef's knives from variety of steels, I have CPM-154 on order with him.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using chopping as in rocking motion cutting with super hard gyutos. just use a normal cutting board and obviously watch out what you cut. But for cutting veggies with rocking or other techniques there are no problems. I have done it with knives ranging from 61 to 65 HRC, from different makers too. Not a single chip.

If you need to work along or with the bones then use boning knife, deba and cleaver, axe, Busse Paul's' hatchet(works just about perfect in the kitchen), whatever else, but not the chef's knife.
For melons and pineapples I've used 65HRC knives with 8 degree angle per side, again, not a single chip. It's not that tough.
However, I really doubt even thick German Chef's knife edge with 20 degree angles per side will survive bones and lobsters. Those things are quite soft at 54-56HRC after all. Won't chip but rolls and dents aren't much better...


Whatever I've used so far - Kitchen Knives


P.S. Hey, Brogan, did you ever get your A-Type Aritsugu?
 
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The chef knife I've been using lately is one I made. It has an 8" blade modeled after European chef knives. The blade is CPM 154 hardened to 59HRC. Edge retention has been excellent; just a quick touch-up every week keeps it in top shape. This knife slices very well due to the thin edge, and the point is great for precision work.

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Lycosa's recommendation to me to round the spine where you choke up was a good one. It saves your fingers from discomfort when you are using the knife for long periods. Some knives I've used are very sharp on the spine and uncomfortable to choke up with.

I'd look for a knife with an precise tip, and just enough of a belly. The handle has to fit your hand and be comfortable. As for steel, I think that the steel should match the task.
Something with high edge retention and fine grain for most tasks and a tougher steel for chopping (I'm making a cleaver in CPM 3V, I hope it turn out well).

Phillip
 
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