Which D2 is best: Dozier, DiamondBladeKnives, AngelSword

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momatej

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I was deciding on which D2 steel treatment would be the best for outdoor and general use. I looked at 3 makers.

Dozier shop (Wilderness knife):
http://www.dozierknives.com/Wildernessknife.htm
Bob Dozier hardly need introduction. Years of experience and more than affordable high quality blades for years. I just closed the deal for the Wilderness knife. I'm very queries on how it is going the handle since I could not find one bad thing on this forum or anywhere else about it. Everybody seems to love it.

DiamondBladeKnives (Model P.D. 1):
http://www.diamondbladeknives.com/frictionForging.aspx
In May 2008 I asked the company if they have any larger blades then 3" +.
They sad they will be rolling out PD1 in May 2009. You can see the pic in the attachments. The thickness of the blade should be .160". The expected price is about $400 with sheath.
So it is bit more expensive then Dozier but uses technology that could make the knife better than the competitions.
Their technology claims to bring the edge D2 quality to the ranks of ZDP-189 with soft spine. I think the idea is very nice but I could not find any feed back on the net. Do any of you have experience with friction forged D2 steel? I'm undecided on this one. I think I will wait year or two see the feedback from the community.

AngelSword (random custom creations):
http://www.angelswordstore.com/inde...art&page=shop.browse&category_id=40&Itemid=92
Every once in while knife appears that is made out of D2 that was put through the "patented Therma-Cycle technology". Which I think is just tweaked out forging process. Anyway I would like to know if anyone had experience with this kind of blade. On paper it states that D2 put through that process becomes over 800% tougher that it was before the process. I can't say I know what that means but speculatively speaking I think, I should be able to hammer the blade like Busse FBM and the result should be almost the same if not better. I was looking at the website to score some 4 to 5" outdoor blade to put it to the test but so far no luck. Their prices, I think, are little over the top but they seem to be doing good since they are still in business.
Also I don't understand why I can't find any knifemaker that uses their services from "MetalScience website". The prices look reasonable and I have to say their swords are something really unique. I have put one to the test and it is very good. I wouldn't go as far as saying it is the best since the blade gets ding or two after chopping tree but little honing and is just like new. I don't want to compare S7 and D2. I just want to indicate that the heat treatment seems to be working for the swords made out of S7 and I'd like to hear unbiased opinion in regards to D2.

I imagine that Dozier shop has their own heat treatment that could be compared to the one of AngelSword. The friction forging seems to be whole another ball game. What I would like to see is some feedback on all three process and how the D2 from each would perform with standard grit or convex grit out in the woods doing the toughest jobs.

Please do not mix INFI into this. I understand it is great steel but I'd like to stay on topic with D2.

If you know about any other maker that uses D2 and is getting attention from to community because of it's uniqueness please add it to this thread.
 
momatej said:
I was deciding on which D2 steel treatment would be the best for outdoor and general use. I looked at 3 makers.

Dozier shop (Wilderness knife):
http://www.dozierknives.com/Wildernessknife.htm
Bob Dozier hardly need introduction. Years of experience and more than affordable high quality blades for years. I just closed the deal for the Wilderness knife. I'm very queries on how it is going the handle since I could not find one bad thing on this forum or anywhere else about it. Everybody seems to love it.

DiamondBladeKnives (Model P.D. 1):
http://www.diamondbladeknives.com/frictionForging.aspx
In May 2008 I asked the company if they have any larger blades then 3" +.
They sad they will be rolling out PD1 in May 2009. You can see the pic in the attachments. The thickness of the blade should be .160". The expected price is about $400 with sheath.
So it is bit more expensive then Dozier but uses technology that could make the knife better than the competitions.
Their technology claims to bring the edge D2 quality to the ranks of ZDP-189 with soft spine. I think the idea is very nice but I could not find any feed back on the net. Do any of you have experience with friction forged D2 steel? I'm undecided on this one. I think I will wait year or two see the feedback from the community.

AngelSword (random custom creations):
http://www.angelswordstore.com/inde...art&page=shop.browse&category_id=40&Itemid=92
Every once in while knife appears that is made out of D2 that was put through the "patented Therma-Cycle technology". Which I think is just tweaked out forging process. Anyway I would like to know if anyone had experience with this kind of blade. On paper it states that D2 put through that process becomes over 800% tougher that it was before the process. I can't say I know what that means but speculatively speaking I think, I should be able to hammer the blade like Busse FBM and the result should be almost the same if not better. I was looking at the website to score some 4 to 5" outdoor blade to put it to the test but so far no luck. Their prices, I think, are little over the top but they seem to be doing good since they are still in business.
Also I don't understand why I can't find any knifemaker that uses their services from "MetalScience website". The prices look reasonable and I have to say their swords are something really unique. I have put one to the test and it is very good. I wouldn't go as far as saying it is the best since the blade gets ding or two after chopping tree but little honing and is just like new. I don't want to compare S7 and D2. I just want to indicate that the heat treatment seems to be working for the swords made out of S7 and I'd like to hear unbiased opinion in regards to D2.

I imagine that Dozier shop has their own heat treatment that could be compared to the one of AngelSword. The friction forging seems to be whole another ball game. What I would like to see is some feedback on all three process and how the D2 from each would perform with standard grit or convex grit out in the woods doing the toughest jobs.

Please do not mix INFI into this. I understand it is great steel but I'd like to stay on topic with D2.

If you know about any other maker that uses D2 and is getting attention from to community because of it's uniqueness please add it to this thread.
Click to expand...

You can't go wrong with Dozier. :thumbup:
 
What is your experience with the Dozier:
How many do you own and how do you use them?
Do you have any convex blades from Dozier?
Do they perform better then standard grit?
 
I'd avoid all of the gimmicks, and go with the proven master. Go Dozier. And because he's a custom maker, if you have worries about chipping D2, you can always have him heat treat the blade to the RC that you prefer. Just give him a call, and talk with him about using D2 on a larger knife. Let him know exactly what you'll be using the knife for. He'll be happy to give you his thoughts on a recommended RC and edge thickness.
 
No disputes there. Dozier shop is one of the best out there.
The safest investment is Dozier at this time. But who knows 5 years from now it might be different maker. It is not very likely but it might happen.
What I'm looking for is little risky venture. Give a knife chance and judge it by it's results.
The question is about D2 steel and how it performs from each maker.
 
momatej said:
The question is about D2 steel and how it performs from each maker.
Click to expand...

That's the thing. The performance will vary greatly with heat treatment. A D2 Dozier with a high RC will perform differently than a Dozier D2 with a lower RC.

I have 2 Doziers, one with a hollow grind and one with a convex grind. Both blades are much smaller than the one that you're looking at though. Far too small to chop with.

The K-4 with hollow grind has an unusually thin grind for very efficient cutting. It's thin even for a Dozier. It will chip ever so slightly if you hit bone. The edge holds forever and a day. You do have to be careful of corrosion.

The convex model is very sturdy and has a reasonably thick grind for a small convex knife. Cutting efficiency is not as good as something like my Marbles Fieldcraft, but I have batoned wood with the knife, and have had no problems with the edge.

But when going with a 5" blade, I'm not sure that D2 would even be on my radar. A larger blade often assumes chopping as a duty. I don't think that chopping is D2's forte. There are much tougher carbon steels out there for chopping knives.
 
As far as corrosion on D2. I used to use motor oil. Seemed to be holding well and for the price you can't beat it. Than I found out about TUF cloth and since then I put it on everything that might rust and is not cutting food.

As far as chopping I would recommend good axe to anyone who would like to use their knife for the task. Gransfor Bruks seems to be the leader in that area.
The most I ever chop with my knives is notch.

Knife is for cutting. It is even in the statement on dozier's website. For every task there is the right tool.

To get back to the point. Thank you for contribution on the small blades from dozier. It definitely helps in understanding on how they perform in general (big or small)
 
You're in NY, come down to Times Square this weekend (Crowne Plaza Hotel) and meet Mr. Dozier and see his wares at the ECCKS.
 
I have been there in November and I rather save my time for Atlanta. It is kind of small and all the good deals are sold the first day and it is very crowded. I have seen the knives from Dozier shop as well as the once from AngelSword. I was missing the booth with DiamondBladeKnives.
 
I think forum member nozh2002 has done edge holding tests on a Dozier as well as a Diamond Blade model, and found the Dozier to hold up longer. I can't remember the details. You could just PM him for his thoughts on the two.
 
Grapevine said:
I think forum member nozh2002 has done edge holding tests on a Dozier as well as a Diamond Blade model, and found the Dozier to hold up longer. I can't remember the details. You could just PM him for his thoughts on the two.
Click to expand...

I believe that's true and IIRC Vassili was impressed with the Dozier
 
I think you are refering to these two threads:
Friction Forged D2 - DiamondBlade Summit
Bob Dozier KS-7 (pics)

nozh2002 is testing the out of box sharpness and over looks and feel of the knives. What I'm looking for is more of test of time. How the knives perform outdoors. I don't want stories on how it helped here and there and how awesome it is. Just want to know how often you have to sharpen it or how dull it becomes when doing this or that task. For example I was changing my horses shoe and and tip got nicked when praying...

There has been more than enough affirmations and praising words about good knives. Please write how do they perform when you take them to the limits. I don't mean taking the hammer and bashing the edge in, but something that looks more like standard knife usage.

Most of the knife buyers get the knife which is few hundred dollars and treat it like pile of money. It has to be safe and look like new.

If you are user not collector please post in this thread.
 
mmarkh said:
You can't go wrong with Dozier. :thumbup:
Click to expand...


I have several Dozier knives and I highly recommend them. His D2 is unbeatable. I have used a pro guide for field dressing game and camp chores, fishing and hiking, cutting everything from firewood fuzz sticks to veggies and it is awesome. I've field dressed as many as 8 whitetail deer without resharpening. the best i've used so far...jim
 
Momateg, no those weren't the threads I was thinking of. There was a thread that I don't think he started, but he responded to and in the response he listed the results of his edge holding tests a a whole array of knives. If I remember right, in his post Dozier's D2 came out on top in his tests, with something else so close behind as to be practically the same. While the Diamond Blade was surprisingly much lower down than one would think, and Buck's 420H higher than one would think.

He has his own procedure for the tests which involves sharpening them all to the same bevel angle and push cutting thread on a scale and counting how many before the pressure needed to push cut the thread increases a certain amount an other math stuff. And I think he resharpens the blades and repeats the tests to get an average for each blade. It all sounds pretty time consuming, and he posts the results here and there so it's sort of hard to search for them by thread title.

Wish I remembered the thread where he listed them.

Edit: Through some search I found where he linked to his site and on there he also puts his list: http://playground.sun.com/~vasya/Manila-Rope-Results.html
 
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tidefan said:
I have several Dozier knives and I highly recommend them. His D2 is unbeatable. I have used a pro guide for field dressing game and camp chores, fishing and hiking, cutting everything from firewood fuzz sticks to veggies and it is awesome. I've field dressed as many as 8 whitetail deer without resharpening. the best i've used so far...jim
Click to expand...

Have you been careful with the knife or did you hit bone here and there? Did you prep anything out of wood for the dear or meat you had to transport? Did you use knife like Mora for the dirty jobs and reserved the fine work for the Dozier?
 
Yet what is the point of measuring all this specs?
If in the field the knife is going to get dull or chip with first use. Cutting in controlled environment is not the same as cutting in heat of hunt or out of need to get worm.
 
The controlled environment allows consistency and therefore tells you more about how the edge holds up head to head. In the field there are too many variables. Sure, someone can say that they've skinned 5 deers without sharpening with this knife and not that knife, but is that because of the steel and heat treat or was one knife duller to start with and had a more obtuse bevel, or did one knife hit bone more often than another? Nozh at least redid the bevels on his test knives to all be the same so the variables can be cut down, and he did controlled cutting on the same material for the same reason.

Real world reports are also not that reliable if the reports are from people who haven't used the blades you're asking about head to head. If you get good reports from the Dozier camp and good reports from the Diamondblade camp but neither camp has used the other, then how would you know how they stacked up, which was what you asked in the original post?

The controlled environment at least gives you a starting off point, and from there you can keep the info in mind or not in purchasing for your real world use.

You asked for comparisons between 3 different makers using D2, and all 3 are somewhat expensive. You've got a bunch of people who've just told you their satisfaction with the Doziers in real use, as well as it coming out on top in controlled testing. Did you expect that there would be a wealth of people who have bought all three and used all 3 in the field? And you hold in disdain the one guy who actually had 2 of those knives and went through the trouble to do controlled tests on them? Nice.
 
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I do not hold anyone in disdain. I just don't consider lab results as measure for field usage. As you sad he changed the blades and his is very likely master sharpener. That invalidates any usage by average knife Joe. That's what I'm thinking.
You can make finger nail really sharp and I think it would be having very good results in his results but are you going to use it as knife in real world?

I believe that for him and others it might be helpful, but to me it doesn't seem as information I could use in figuring out what is the likelihood of me having good experience with knife, and after I get the knife it doesn't give me any pointers on what I should be aware of.

Back to my initial point. I would like just hear from people who actually use one or the other or third knife. I don't care if they used two or one. I just want to hear other things than how great the knife is.

Because I'm curious and I can, I will eventually buy all tree knives to see for myself. But at that point I would like to have things to watch out for and expect from the knife.

I don't like being attacked just because I have different opinion. Grapevine I don't deny you your right to disagree with me but the sarcasm is not necessary. It brings emotions into play that usually cloud the initial thought.

Every really word report has to be taken with grain of salt. It might be exaggerated, it might not be true or it just might be something obvious. But with experience and sound judgment I can decided what is likely and what is not.
 
momatej said:
I do not hold anyone in disdain. I just don't consider lab results as measure for field usage. As you sad he changed the blades and his is very likely master sharpener. That invalidates any usage by average knife Joe. That's what I'm thinking.
You can make finger nail really sharp and I think it would be having very good results in his results but are you going to use it as knife in real world?

I believe that for him and others it might be helpful, but to me it doesn't seem as information I could use in figuring out what is the likelihood of me having good experience with knife, and after I get the knife it doesn't give me any pointers on what I should be aware of.

Back to my initial point. I would like just hear from people who actually use one or the other or third knife. I don't care if they used two or one. I just want to hear other things than how great the knife is.

Because I'm curious and I can, I will eventually buy all tree knives to see for myself. But at that point I would like to have things to watch out for and expect from the knife.

I don't like being attacked just because I have different opinion. Grapevine I don't deny you your right to disagree with me but the sarcasm is not necessary. It brings emotions into play that usually cloud the initial thought.

Every really word report has to be taken with grain of salt. It might be exaggerated, it might not be true or it just might be something obvious. But with experience and sound judgment I can decided what is likely and what is not.
Click to expand...

I doubt that finger nail will stand 200 cut of half inch manila rope. However to see real difference you need to know how to sharpen knife to hair whittling sharpness otherwise I doubt difference between dull Dozier and dull whatever else will be big, so if you can not sharp - you do not need premium steel, as well as if you are going to cut stones - you will not see difference.

Now if you are looking for information - you may just read what is this test about instead of speculation based on some thoughts on tests in general, may be then it will be helpful.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
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